My 9th Wedding Anniversary Trip, To Newport, OR Carb Ice & Real Engine Out "Long"

Yes, I do have Life Vests on board as I do a lot of coastal flying out
here. When I get the chance I want to Fly from Astoria to Crescent City
along the Oregon coast I think that would be a fun trip.


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Ten miles out over the ocean in a 150? Life jackets on board? Could you
have
glided to the beach? No way to tell what the dew point was at your
altitude
(the clouds give us a hint) but you seem to have been in a good location
for
carb ice...45 degrees OAT is not insurance against ice. I think you lucked
out.

Bob Gardner

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, group the wife and I departed at 12:30pm 06-26-04 ceilings
scattered
at 4,900' tops 6,000' & clear at the coast we will be flying over 3,800'
terrain. The trip up was a fun flight almost uneventful was fun weaving
around the clouds will post photos soon. As briefed the clouds were gone
about 10 miles before the coast line.



We flew out over the pacific ocean about 10 miles looking at all the
fishing
boats. The asked the wife if she was ready for me to show her a steep
turn,
she said ok. She actually wanted to do another after the first one we
did
a
few other things then decided that we need to land as it is getting
close
to
the bed and breakfast check in time. The winds at our destination were
220
@
9 G15. I opted for runway 20 was a bit high on a RP. I decided to slip
it
in I explained to the wife what I was going to do she was alright with a
slip. We landed checked in with the FBO called the place we were staying
at
they picked us up promptly.



The Place we stayed at was The Newly Built Stone Crest Cellar Bed &
Breakfast. Our hostess Judy was a very pleasant upscale lady. If you are
looking to take your wife on a relaxing log cabin castle type paradise
getaway, on the Oregon coast this is the place to go.



The rooms are great the beds are high quality the complementary wine &
appetizers (cheese & crackers, fresh fruit, chocolate truffles & port)
are
great. The ocean view's are outstanding from the deck and even better
from
their hammock on the bluff. The beach access needs a bit of work but
they

are working on it! The bedding & linens are great quality & very
comfortable. Thick comfortable robes are also provided. The sound of the
ocean waves will put you to sleep ASAP.



This morning's breakfast was excellent & consisted of gourmet coffee,
tea,
fresh fruit, fresh O.J., wheat toast, and one dam good omelet nothing
was
spared, lots of great stuffings and served with a smile. We will
definitely
return to The Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast wish we were able to
stay
more than 1 night.



We check out Judy takes us back to the airport about a mile away thanks
us
&
wishes us a safe trip.



Web address for Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast
http://www.stonecrestbb.com/



Now the fun begins:



Call in for a weather brief about a half hour prior to getting ot the
airport, Ceilings Scattered 1,600; to 5,500 with mountain's obscured,
winds
aloft were light and variable airmass stable. We get fueled up & pre
flight,
I program the GPS and fold my chart the way I like it. We depart runway
34
climb up to 6,500 head for the tops of the scatterd clouds. I make the
call
to go up to 7,500 It felt more comfortable there and the what a view the
scattered clouds below. I had to climb up to 8,300' to keep cloud
clearance
I set up for cruise, a fiew minuits later the engine starts to run a bit
ruff. I go through my checks apply carburetor heat it smoothes out radio
to
Seattle center that I have some carburetor ice they ask me for the OAT
was
about 45 degrees.



I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling! I pitch for best
glide
make sure all my checks are done. I see KMMV and I got plenty of
altitude
I
know could make if I could not get restarted. I reported to Seattle
Center
that I now have an engine out and I may have to be landing other than my
destination and that I have KMMV in site and I am attempting a restart.



At about 4,500' I can hear the engine starting to sputter wanting to
fire
back up as I am descending over KMMV at about 3,800' the ice melted
engine
regained power burping every now i held altitude until ice was totally
gone,
I leave the carburetor heat on, the oil temp started to climb back up to
normal. I wipe the sweet off my forehead, radio to Seattle Center tell
them
that I have it restarted and am going to continue on.



Right after I radioed in to Seattle that I got power back another pilot
on
flight following was going west bound at 8,500' called Seattle Center
asking
them ware I had the carburetor ice at because he wanted to avoid the
area.



All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that the
engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the
little
1
day vacation in paradise.

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...
Great story!

Yeah that carb ice can be a sneaky little bugger. Both times I
experienced
it (the second time it was more severe and the engine went graveyard dead
on
a few occasions ) I was in an 'Ice Maiden' g C-152.

Your experience sounds almost identical to my second (more severe) carb
ice
incident, except that I opted to do an emergency landing at an airport
that
I knew I could easily glide to even if I lost all power. For me, the
reason
I did the precautionary landing is that I didn't feel that I had enough
experience to really say it was a carb ice issue I had been dealing with
for
certain - even though I was sure of it. So, I opted to land, just in case
there was some other reason that my level of experience didn't permit me
to
ferret out the actual cause.

Great job! Glad the Mrs. handled it well, also!

She did not know the engine quit till I did the radio call she just thought
since I was just past the mountain range it was time to go down she just
gets air sick all the time & my wife really trusts me.



P.S. I may be 'preaching to the choir' at this point and telling you
something you already are aware of, but just in case you, or others
reading
your post weren't aware; I did want to mention that carb ice doesn't
require
there to be freezing or near freezing temperatures just outside the
aircraft. In fact, outside temps in the seventies with sufficient
humidity
will produce carb ice.

In fact, the first time I ever experienced carb ice (less severe than my
second experience) the temperature outside the cabin was in the mid 70's
and
it was generally a warm day, with relatively high humidity - that's all it
took...

Yes, I have expericanced it a few times in warmer weather but never as sever
as this time carb heat usually dose it but this time wow came on so fast.



--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Glad to hear it...too many pilots fly over water without them. I've flown
the Astoria-Crescent City trip many times, staying within gliding distance
of the beach. South of Crescent City there are many places where there is no
beach at all. For future reference, I have talked to CEC-based pilots who
tell me that the fog can roll in mighty fast...racing them to the airport.

Did you lean the mix when you pulled the carb heat on? Remember that adding
carb heat richens the mixture and you should lean to compensate.

Bob Gardner
"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Yes, I do have Life Vests on board as I do a lot of coastal flying out
here. When I get the chance I want to Fly from Astoria to Crescent City
along the Oregon coast I think that would be a fun trip.


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Ten miles out over the ocean in a 150? Life jackets on board? Could you
have
glided to the beach? No way to tell what the dew point was at your
altitude
(the clouds give us a hint) but you seem to have been in a good location
for
carb ice...45 degrees OAT is not insurance against ice. I think you
lucked
out.

Bob Gardner

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, group the wife and I departed at 12:30pm 06-26-04 ceilings
scattered
at 4,900' tops 6,000' & clear at the coast we will be flying over
3,800'
terrain. The trip up was a fun flight almost uneventful was fun
weaving
around the clouds will post photos soon. As briefed the clouds were
gone
about 10 miles before the coast line.



We flew out over the pacific ocean about 10 miles looking at all the
fishing
boats. The asked the wife if she was ready for me to show her a steep
turn,
she said ok. She actually wanted to do another after the first one we
did
a
few other things then decided that we need to land as it is getting
close
to
the bed and breakfast check in time. The winds at our destination were
220
@
9 G15. I opted for runway 20 was a bit high on a RP. I decided to
slip
it
in I explained to the wife what I was going to do she was alright with
a
slip. We landed checked in with the FBO called the place we were
staying
at
they picked us up promptly.



The Place we stayed at was The Newly Built Stone Crest Cellar Bed &
Breakfast. Our hostess Judy was a very pleasant upscale lady. If you
are
looking to take your wife on a relaxing log cabin castle type paradise
getaway, on the Oregon coast this is the place to go.



The rooms are great the beds are high quality the complementary wine &
appetizers (cheese & crackers, fresh fruit, chocolate truffles & port)
are
great. The ocean view's are outstanding from the deck and even better
from
their hammock on the bluff. The beach access needs a bit of work but
they

are working on it! The bedding & linens are great quality & very
comfortable. Thick comfortable robes are also provided. The sound of
the
ocean waves will put you to sleep ASAP.



This morning's breakfast was excellent & consisted of gourmet coffee,
tea,
fresh fruit, fresh O.J., wheat toast, and one dam good omelet nothing
was
spared, lots of great stuffings and served with a smile. We will
definitely
return to The Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast wish we were able to
stay
more than 1 night.



We check out Judy takes us back to the airport about a mile away
thanks
us
&
wishes us a safe trip.



Web address for Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast
http://www.stonecrestbb.com/



Now the fun begins:



Call in for a weather brief about a half hour prior to getting ot the
airport, Ceilings Scattered 1,600; to 5,500 with mountain's obscured,
winds
aloft were light and variable airmass stable. We get fueled up & pre
flight,
I program the GPS and fold my chart the way I like it. We depart
runway
34
climb up to 6,500 head for the tops of the scatterd clouds. I make the
call
to go up to 7,500 It felt more comfortable there and the what a view
the
scattered clouds below. I had to climb up to 8,300' to keep cloud
clearance
I set up for cruise, a fiew minuits later the engine starts to run a
bit
ruff. I go through my checks apply carburetor heat it smoothes out
radio
to
Seattle center that I have some carburetor ice they ask me for the OAT
was
about 45 degrees.



I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling! I pitch for best
glide
make sure all my checks are done. I see KMMV and I got plenty of
altitude
I
know could make if I could not get restarted. I reported to Seattle
Center
that I now have an engine out and I may have to be landing other than
my
destination and that I have KMMV in site and I am attempting a
restart.



At about 4,500' I can hear the engine starting to sputter wanting to
fire
back up as I am descending over KMMV at about 3,800' the ice melted
engine
regained power burping every now i held altitude until ice was totally
gone,
I leave the carburetor heat on, the oil temp started to climb back up
to
normal. I wipe the sweet off my forehead, radio to Seattle Center tell
them
that I have it restarted and am going to continue on.



Right after I radioed in to Seattle that I got power back another
pilot
on
flight following was going west bound at 8,500' called Seattle Center
asking
them ware I had the carburetor ice at because he wanted to avoid the
area.



All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that
the
engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the
little
1
day vacation in paradise.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Glad to hear it...too many pilots fly over water without them. I've flown
the Astoria-Crescent City trip many times, staying within gliding distance
of the beach. South of Crescent City there are many places where there is
no
beach at all. For future reference, I have talked to CEC-based pilots who
tell me that the fog can roll in mighty fast...racing them to the airport.

Did you lean the mix when you pulled the carb heat on? Remember that
adding
carb heat richens the mixture and you should lean to compensate.

I was at cruise and yes I was leaned out as I always do at 2,350 rpm the air
was very stable winds aloft were almost non existent it did not even feel
like we were flying, I was just reading a post on google about flying the
150 with a little bit of carb heat on if your in a moist airmass as the
150's carb's really likes to ice up any truth to this? is it wise to cruise
with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

NW_PILOT wrote:

is it wise to cruise
with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

I was taught and have read in several publications that you should always use full
carb heat if you use it at all.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...
I was taught and have read in several publications that you should
always use full carb heat if you use it at all.

I would agree with that. The only possible exception being when you have a
carb temp gauge and can ensure that partial carb heat produces temperatures
well above freezing.

I don't think there's really any significant advantage to using partial carb
heat, and at altitude there's generally no problem running with carb heat
full on all of the time, if that's what it takes to keep the carb clear.
(Nod to the pedants around he possible exceptions being things like
flying through a cloud of volcanic ash, that sort of thing)

Pete

I've always wondered about this suggestion? Here's what I'm thinking: If I
fly along and start getting carb ice, generally, I can apply carb heat and
eventually (hopefully) eliminate the condition. At that point, I am aware
that the conditions are conducive to carb ice and take whatever actions I
deem appropriate. BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
address - there is no other fall back at that point.

Is there something I'm missing? Is the second scenario I'm describing
impossible? I'd be curious about your thoughts.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


NW_PILOT wrote:

is it wise to cruise
with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

I was taught and have read in several publications that you should always
use full
carb heat if you use it at all.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

Use partial heat only if you have instrumentation that tells you the
conditions in the carburetor throat, either optically or by temperature. All
unmodified 150's have Continental engines, according to the Blue Book, and
Continentals are far more prone to carb ice than Lycomings. If I was flying
your 150 I would be watching the RPM really close when in conditions
conducive to carb ice, which are illustrated he
http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm.

Bob Gardner
"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Glad to hear it...too many pilots fly over water without them. I've
flown
the Astoria-Crescent City trip many times, staying within gliding
distance
of the beach. South of Crescent City there are many places where there
is
no
beach at all. For future reference, I have talked to CEC-based pilots
who
tell me that the fog can roll in mighty fast...racing them to the
airport.

Did you lean the mix when you pulled the carb heat on? Remember that
adding
carb heat richens the mixture and you should lean to compensate.

I was at cruise and yes I was leaned out as I always do at 2,350 rpm the
air
was very stable winds aloft were almost non existent it did not even feel
like we were flying, I was just reading a post on google about flying the
150 with a little bit of carb heat on if your in a moist airmass as the
150's carb's really likes to ice up any truth to this? is it wise to
cruise
with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

Cecil Chapman wrote:

BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
address - there is no other fall back at that point.

If you're in conditions where full carb-heat won't prevent carb-ice, what
difference does it make whether you learn that full carb-heat is
insufficient quickly or slowly?

Is there something I'm missing? Is the second scenario I'm describing
impossible? I'd be curious about your thoughts.

That's why I asked whether NW had the heat hot when descending (and never
saw an answer, sadly). I've never had a situation where carb-ice formed
despite the heat being on. But that doesn't preclude the possibility (esp.
since I'm in a very different neighborhood).

I've only recently started flying aircraft that have carb-temp gauges. You
can bet I'll be watching those with some curiosity.

- Andrew

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
. com...
[...] BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
address - there is no other fall back at that point.

If you are in conditions conducive to carb ice without carb heat, then
there's no way for full carb heat to produce a conditon that is still
conducive to carb ice. Conversely, if you get carb ice with the carb heat
full on, you are flying in some pretty cold temperatures and there was no
need for carb heat in the first place.

In any case, the problem with partial carb heat is that, without a carb temp
gauge, you have no way of knowing that you haven't created conditions
conducive to carb ice when none existed previously, or that you haven't
turned conditions only a little conducive to carb ice into conditions that
are very conducive to carb ice.

Pete