Jabiru 5100 - any experiences yet?

Best thing is to ask Mike Sullivan who was the exclusive tester for them
in his 3/4 scale spitfire, when i ran into him at LAX he had rolled up
his third (and last) plane with the engine and was adamant he wouldn't
recommend then to anyone, period.

Do a search and ask him, they nearly cost him his life........ Michael


CW9371 wrote:
Eight cylinders may have some advantages over 4. The smaller cylinders
likely will have better combustion and if you lose one the engine may
still deliver useful power without running too rough. Guess how they
know.

Mike Borgelt


also gives u a smoother running engine

Best thing is to ask Mike Sullivan who was the exclusive tester for them
in his 3/4 scale spitfire, when i ran into him at LAX he had rolled up
his third (and last) plane with the engine and was adamant he wouldn't
recommend then to anyone, period.

Do a search and ask him, they nearly cost him his life........ Michae

why dont u post something about him saying that, when i looked up the sites i
didnt see anything bad he had said about it. this is the most annoying thing
about the net, people post stuff without giving the reasons, or anything to
colaborate there statements

What i am saying to you is email him direct.... he cant put on his site
that the engines are crap or he will end up in court, take the time to
send him a short and personal email and see what comes back, then you
will have the word on the engine from the person who has more hours than
anyone else in the world behind the 8 cylinder. Easy....

CW9371 wrote:
Best thing is to ask Mike Sullivan who was the exclusive tester for them
in his 3/4 scale spitfire, when i ran into him at LAX he had rolled up
his third (and last) plane with the engine and was adamant he wouldn't
recommend then to anyone, period.

Do a search and ask him, they nearly cost him his life........ Michae


why dont u post something about him saying that, when i looked up the sites i
didnt see anything bad he had said about it. this is the most annoying thing
about the net, people post stuff without giving the reasons, or anything to
colaborate there statements

What i am saying to you is email him direct.... he cant put on his site
that the engines are crap or he will end up in court, take the time to
send him a short and personal email and see what comes back, then you
will have the word on the engine from the person who has more hours than
anyone else in the world behind the 8 cylinder. Easy....

If the engines are so crappy as u say, he should be able to substatiant his
comments therefore he can say what he wants about them without getting in
trouble

On 10 Feb 2004 21:47:34 GMT, (CW9371) wrote:


What i am saying to you is email him direct.... he cant put on his site
that the engines are crap or he will end up in court, take the time to
send him a short and personal email and see what comes back, then you
will have the word on the engine from the person who has more hours than
anyone else in the world behind the 8 cylinder. Easy....

If the engines are so crappy as u say, he should be able to substatiant his
comments therefore he can say what he wants about them without getting in
trouble

Doesn't stop him from being sued. Just means that, after spending $20,000
or so to defend himself, he might be able to prove what he said was true.
And then have to countersue to try to recover his expenses...and such
recovery would be complicated by the company in question being located in
another country.

Ron Wanttaja

Doesn't stop him from being sued. Just means that, after spending $20,000
or so to defend himself, he might be able to prove what he said was true.
And then have to countersue to try to recover his expenses...and such
recovery would be complicated by the company in question being located in
another country.



I thought he was in australia also

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
On 10 Feb 2004 21:47:34 GMT, (CW9371) wrote:


What i am saying to you is email him direct.... he cant put on his site
that the engines are crap or he will end up in court, take the time to
send him a short and personal email and see what comes back, then you
will have the word on the engine from the person who has more hours than
anyone else in the world behind the 8 cylinder. Easy....

If the engines are so crappy as u say, he should be able to substatiant
his
comments therefore he can say what he wants about them without getting in
trouble

Doesn't stop him from being sued.

Well, Ron, I guess anybody could get sued for just about anything; but I
doubt any attorney is interested in busting the wallet of some poor bloke
who has already had his a** busted by a klunky aircraft engine.


Just means that, after spending $20,000
or so to defend himself, he might be able to prove what he said was true.

Well, yes, but does it really cost that much to defend words that happen to
be true? I think it really sad that the message may need to be gotten out
about the 6-cylinder Jabiru, and everybody will go mum with fear of a
lawsuit.

On the other hand if the engine is reliable, success will follow.

I personally don't care for an engine that has to turn such high rpm's to
obtain its rated horsepower. It causes you to have to shorten the prop,
when you want the tips out there away from the cowl.

And then have to countersue to try to recover his expenses

If a winning countersuit is available to a slapp victim, then more power to
him, I say.


....and such
recovery would be complicated by the company in question being located in
another country.

Well, here I take a little issue with you. If a foreign company is
permitted to sue here in the USA, then it can post security to cover damages
in a judgment against itself on a counterclaim.

The question remains, is Jabiru manufacturing and selling an engine which is
unsafe for use in aircraft? I have heard some mighty strong statements
about those engines, including reading at least one in
rec.aviation.ultralight. Have any of the critics been sued?


Ron Wanttaja

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:06:58 -0500, " jls" wrote:

Well, Ron, I guess anybody could get sued for just about anything; but I
doubt any attorney is interested in busting the wallet of some poor bloke
who has already had his a** busted by a klunky aircraft engine.

No, but an attorney does what his client pays him to do. No lawyer takes a
SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation) case for a client on
a contingency basis. The tactic is used by those with either deep enough
pockets, or some access to low-cost legal support, such as a family member
who is a lawyer.

Just means that, after spending $20,000
or so to defend himself, he might be able to prove what he said was true.

Well, yes, but does it really cost that much to defend words that happen to
be true?

I believe the going rate for legal assistance is about $250/hour. $20,000
is just two forty-hour weeks, for an attorney. That doesn't include other
expenses, such as court costs, travel, etc.

Remember, too, that the purpose of a SLAPP suit is NOT to get to court to
have the issues settled. The purpose of a SLAPP suit is make continued
resistance financially prohibitive...to shut someone up by making it too
expensive to defend themselves. A lawsuit can be stretched out over years.
Heck, the SLAPP suit in which I was a co-defendant is *still* active, with
one remaining defendant, five years after I won dismissal (the RAH-15 case,
of course).

I think it really sad that the message may need to be gotten out
about the 6-cylinder Jabiru, and everybody will go mum with fear of a
lawsuit.

I think it is sad, too, and believe people should speak up if they've got
the truth on their side. But as a former defendant in a SLAPP suit, I can
sympathize with those who keep silent for fear of becoming a target.

And then have to countersue to try to recover his expenses

If a winning countersuit is available to a slapp victim, then more power to
him, I say.

But, again, it costs money to prosecute such a case. Maybe...
eventually... you'll win. But there are plenty of ways an unscrupulous
company or individual can keep from paying any judgement. Buddy of mine
won a personal-injury case (ex-husband of his girlfriend assaulted him with
a baseball bat) and didn't see a dime.

...and such
recovery would be complicated by the company in question being located in
another country.

Well, here I take a little issue with you. If a foreign company is
permitted to sue here in the USA, then it can post security to cover damages
in a judgment against itself on a counterclaim.

Someone else posted that the critic was Australian as well, which means any
suit would come under Australian law. Not sure what that would mean, in
this case. Australia might have a "loser pays" system, which would make
things easier for the critic.

The question remains, is Jabiru manufacturing and selling an engine which is
unsafe for use in aircraft? I have heard some mighty strong statements
about those engines, including reading at least one in
rec.aviation.ultralight. Have any of the critics been sued?

Depends on the type of comments. It's tough to base a SLAPP suit on one or
two critical statements. SLAPP suits are generally used against
*persistent* critics, not against one or two people saying "I think their
product is bad." Somebody making specific, repeated claims, especially if
worded "in the heat of the moment," might be more at-risk.

Lawsuits against critics in homebuilt aviation aren't unknown. Dave
Blanton was essentially driven out of business by a libel suit (justified,
by my understanding). There was the RAH-15 case, a classic example of a
SLAPP suit. Other homebuilt companies have garnered somewhat of a history
of suing their customers...for example, see:

http://www.seawind.cc/builders_sued.htm

The trouble is, most of what I've seen about the Jabiru engines have been
"I've heard" or "Another guy said" sort of comments. I'd be most happy to
hear first-person accounts of trouble or success.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:06:58 -0500, " jls"
wrote:

Very interesting. Thanks for the Seawind link.

cont'd:

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
[...]There was the RAH-15 case, a classic example of a
SLAPP suit.

Which makes me wonder. Could anything have backfired any worse? Could
anyone have committed a more strategic blunder?

Well, I identify with you RAH-15. At least you had company to commiserate
with you. And you had a good Florida lawyer helping you, iirc. Try
getting SLAPPed alone sometime. It ain't fun.


Other homebuilt companies have garnered somewhat of a history
of suing their customers...for example, see:

http://www.seawind.cc/builders_sued.htm

The guy who put up this page is not afraid of being sued. It sounds to me
like he'd fight a buzz-saw.

The trouble is, most of what I've seen about the Jabiru engines have been
"I've heard" or "Another guy said" sort of comments. I'd be most happy to
hear first-person accounts of trouble or success.

Ron Wanttaja

We'll keep asking. Someone will talk sooner or later. Personally I'd
like to see the Jabiru engines a success, and eight-bangers ought to make a
beautiful sound. If they are hurting people, though, the truth ought to be
known.