Landout Laws

I don't grow cotton, WAG is $1-2K/a. The farmer has a chain and lock there
for a reason and I would not cut it. If there are workers or houses near,
they should be able to tell you who owns it. You could also call the Farm
Services Agency of USDA, they have maps of every field in the US and can
tell you who farms them. A local crop duster pilot could also tell you who
farms it and could fill you in on if he is going to be hard to get along
with too. I don't think you will have any problem with 95% of the farmers if
you just contact them first. But you can be 100% sure of problems if a
farmer drives up on you after you've cut his fence and driven your SUV into
his field without his permission.

"mm" wrote in message ...
Do you happen to know what the value of cotton is per acre?

Were I fly, most often the farmer/rancher is not on site, and I have not
even seen ownership info posted so that I could contact him later. In
situations like this, what should a pilot/crew do to minimize damage, and
reduce the chances of angering the farmer? Is cutting and then repairing
a
chain link acceptable or not? If not what is the alternative?

Thank you,

"Birdy" wrote in message
...
I'm a farmer and a pilot, but I don't fly gliders yet. When you all land
in
a field, first of all get permission from the farmer to retrieve the
airplane . There is NOTHING that will make a farmer madder than someone
driving through his crops and fields. He can tell you how he wants you
to
remove your glider with minium damage to the field and glider and will
likely pitch in to help if he is not busy. Also offer to pay damages,
gross
per a. is about $500on corn, $350 soybeans, $300 wheat and some other
crops
it can be much more. Tomatoes could be $5K/a. I don't think you would
like
it if someone drove a truck through your yard and over your bushes, it's
about the same thing. Just treat the farmers with respect and take care
of
any damage and you will be ok.


"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news2TXb.4247$hE.3741@fed1read07...
One possibility is to carry a few business cards, and write on the
back
"good for one free glider ride at xxxx", initial it, and give it to
the
person whose field you landed in. Then be sure to tell the local
glider
ride operation that you will pay if someone shows up with the card.


Steve Hopkins wrote:

I think it is Cambridge GC in England that instituted
a fantastic land-out diplomatic policy. Pilots, landing
out, issued an invitation to the farmer and his wife
to the club's annual dinner dance. Not only did this
do wonders for public relations, I think they even
managed to snag a few new flying members. I heard a
wonderful tale of a local farmer telephoning the club
rather concerned that he was going to miss the annual
dinner dance. He added that he had kept the field mown
and had erected a wind sock but that nobody had landed
in his field that year!








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On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:16:40 -0800, Eric Greenwell
wrote:

....snippage...

I agree. I read everything Chip writes. His posting on "pilot relief
devices" a few years ago is still one the RAS Top 10 Postings (make that
one of the Top 5).

Any chance of re-posting this?

I've just tried a Google Groups search and that shows nothing posted
by Chip before 16 Feb 2002 and nothing on that subject since then.

TIA
Martin


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

The pilots weren't tresspassing. They were survivors of an emergency
landing.

"Charles Petersen" wrote in message
...
We had two landouts at Seminole yesterday, both in the same field, - a
pasture with cattle and a locked gate. One of the pilots visited a nearby
farmhouse, and spoke with the wife of the property owner asking permission
to enter and a key. She was very nice and called her son. He agreed to
call back on the pilots cell phone. The Sheriff was also called and did
not
call back. An hour later, with both trailers at the gate, we called the
Sheriff again and advised that we intended to cut a link in the chain, and
replace it with a padlock when we left, and mail the key to the owner.
This
would leave his field secure, and there was no damage. The Sheriff's
office
made it clear they were not giving permission, and the retrieve crew made
it
clear they were not asking for permission, merely advising the Sheriff of
their intentions, citing the approaching sunset and $220,000 of aircraft
in
a field with cattle. A bolt cutter gave entry, and we commenced
derigging,
leaving our most charming crew member at the gate. Both the son of the
owner and the Sheriff arrived. The son was extremely upset, insisting
that
charges be laid. The Sheriff, seemingly somewhat reluctantly,
fingerprinted
both pilots and wrote up a proposal for charges, which he said would be
presented to the public attorney to decide whether to proceed. Nothing
further has been heard, and we hope / believe nothing further will be
heard.

My question is: - what is the law governing a landout on private property?
What are the rights of the pilot and of the property owner? Where are
these
rights codified? The Sheriff said if we had done the same thing after he
arrived, he would not have laid charges. He did not charge the retrieve
crew with breaking and entering or trespassing. What about the crew
situation?

BTW, all concerned did act as 'ambassadors of the sport', but the son was
implacable.

Ok, I'll fess up. I've got 133 landouts in hang gliders.
But it wasn't that big a problem for me after I got my dad involved.

My dad was an Ag Banker in Central California where
I landed out often. The big thing the farmers need to
know is that they aren't going to be harmed financially
after you drag your glider out. Years ago, my dad sent
letters to the local farm co-ops explaining that gliders
exist and on occasion you might find one in your field.
The heads up got most everybody past the first step in
their learning process,facing the unknown. Farmers don't
usually know squat about soaring. For all they know,
your full of poisonous fuel, are radioactive and cause cattle sterility.
If you can educate them before you drop in, you will have a
much easier time on the retrieve.

I took my Hang glider stuff to a few FFA meetings, and explained how
I flew and that sometimes, I don't make it home and might accidentally
become their guest. The kids thought it was cool, the adults were
appreciative that somebody had the forethought to tell them what
was going on above them that migt affect them someday. Quite
a few FFA groups and Farmers Cooperatives got the same program
in the mail. After that, I was treated really well by the farmers I dropped
in on, and a couple actually welcomed me.

Proactivity is more time consuming than making excuses at the gate,
but maybe if the racing organization cared to be good neighbors,
a similar effort might raise awareness to a point where problems could
be avoided. I think I might start with the county sherrifs and move
down the food chain.

Scott Correa

Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:16:40 -0800, Eric Greenwell
wrote:

....snippage...


I agree. I read everything Chip writes. His posting on "pilot relief
devices" a few years ago is still one the RAS Top 10 Postings (make that
one of the Top 5).


Any chance of re-posting this?

I've just tried a Google Groups search and that shows nothing posted
by Chip before 16 Feb 2002 and nothing on that subject since then.

If it's OK with Chip, I'll repost it, but I'm asking his permission
first in case he wants to repost it himself. It's a classic posting, and
I know it's technically in the public domain, but I'd feel better if
Chip OKs it first.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:16:40 -0800, Eric Greenwell
wrote:

....snippage...


I agree. I read everything Chip writes. His posting on "pilot relief
devices" a few years ago is still one the RAS Top 10 Postings (make that
one of the Top 5).


Any chance of re-posting this?

I've just tried a Google Groups search and that shows nothing posted
by Chip before 16 Feb 2002 and nothing on that subject since then.

If it's OK with Chip, I'll repost it, but I'm asking his permission
first in case he wants to repost it himself. It's a classic posting, and
I know it's technically in the public domain, but I'd feel better if
Chip OKs it first.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:16:40 -0800, Eric Greenwell
wrote:

....snippage...


I agree. I read everything Chip writes. His posting on "pilot relief
devices" a few years ago is still one the RAS Top 10 Postings (make that
one of the Top 5).


Any chance of re-posting this?

I've just tried a Google Groups search and that shows nothing posted
by Chip before 16 Feb 2002 and nothing on that subject since then.

If it's OK with Chip, I'll repost it, but I'm asking his permission
first in case he wants to repost it himself. It's a classic posting, and
I know it's technically in the public domain, but I'd feel better if
Chip OKs it first.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:32:35 -0800, Eric Greenwell
wrote:


Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:16:40 -0800, Eric Greenwell
wrote:

....snippage...


I agree. I read everything Chip writes. His posting on "pilot relief
devices" a few years ago is still one the RAS Top 10 Postings (make that
one of the Top 5).


Any chance of re-posting this?

I've just tried a Google Groups search and that shows nothing posted
by Chip before 16 Feb 2002 and nothing on that subject since then.

If it's OK with Chip, I'll repost it, but I'm asking his permission
first in case he wants to repost it himself. It's a classic posting, and
I know it's technically in the public domain, but I'd feel better if
Chip OKs it first.

I've no problem with that! Thanks.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

Lots of good information in this thread. I landed in a new cotton
field in which the plants were only 3 inches tall. The field was
planted on double rows so I carefully avoided hitting any of the young
plants. The Farmer came out with the usual assortment of kids and,
after exchanging pleasantries (carry a real dirty CAT hat for these
occasions), I pointed out that I had missed each and every of his
cotton plants. He looked me straight in the eye and said, "son with
the price of cotton right now it don't make a damm bit of difference"
and that was that.

Growing up on a ranch I have been on both sides of the trespass issue.
No matter what the law says you are an uninvited guest on the
property. Most ranchers/farmers have a long history of yeah who's
shooting off the road, starting fires, cutting fences, driving
recklessly, tossing beer bottles and your arrival can be labeled just
another chapter in this litany. Remember that most of these folks are
rather solitary, get few visitors, are rather wary of strangers and
like it that way, hence the choice of vocation. You should make every
effort to understand and overcome these obstacles with common sense
and the provision of respect for the person and the land. They do not
care at all that by landing in their field you just sank your chances
at a hero score in the Nationals or your a hot shot from the Big City.
Ask about the rain, ground, (pick some up in your hand), crop prices,
co ops, crop rotation, how long they have been at it and the best Cafe
in town. Of course there are some farmers and ranchers that fall into
the nutty category as well. Better yet, judging from their posts in
this thread, land with Chip Bearden and Chris.



(Chris OCallaghan) wrote in message . com...
You've received many responses, all offering good advice. Here's a
suggestion to get real info on legalities. If you are an AOPA member,
call them and make use of their member services, which include just
this type of legal assistance. If you are not a member, perhaps you
can convince an AOPA member to call and share with the group.

I have soared cross country since the 1950's and because of low skill level
have landed in about 200 fields. I only had serious trouble once- with hired
horse farm manager. Problem was solved when Nancy arrived carrying our 1 1/2
year old daughter with a dripping diaper. "O what the Hell get out of here".

Be very nice. Say sir a lot. If offered a drink of water, accept and comment
on how great the water tastes. Helps to comment how much you appreciate the
food or fiber that the 2 percent the who work the land provide to the rest of
us.

Do everything possible to reduce damage
to crops.


Bill Snead
6W