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#41
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
"Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1130445527.239974@sj-nntpcache-3... ...or above Bravo. Lots of traffic up there, though. FF above the Bravo is good, approach wants to be talking to you, and they can't tell you to go away. Why does approach want to be talking to you above Bravo? |
#42
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
nk.net: "Judah" wrote in message . .. The NTSB report refers to a descent into the water caused by spatial disorientation. A simple Altitude Alert from a controller could have reminded him to look at his altimiter and VSI and realize that he was pointed into the water instead of into the Horizon, potentially yeilding different results. Would an altitude alert end his disorientation? Why would the controller issue an altitude alert? He was operating VFR, he wasn't required to hold any particular altitude. It might have. It largely depends on the exact nature of his disorientation - which neither of us know for sure. From what I hear on the radio, flight following is often a lot more than just traffic alerts... Like what? What do you hear on the radio? Everything from weather and turbulence reports to personal greetings and brief personal conversations - even sports score announcements! Many controllers seem friendly and are happy to assist pilots in any way they can. |
#43
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
"Judah" wrote in message . .. It might have. It largely depends on the exact nature of his disorientation - which neither of us know for sure. Why would the controller issue the altitude alert? Everything from weather and turbulence reports to personal greetings and brief personal conversations - even sports score announcements! Many controllers seem friendly and are happy to assist pilots in any way they can. But that's unrelated to flight following, that comes from just being on the frequency. |
#44
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
Judah wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in nk.net: "Judah" wrote in message 8... The NTSB report refers to a descent into the water caused by spatial disorientation. A simple Altitude Alert from a controller could have reminded him to look at his altimiter and VSI and realize that he was pointed into the water instead of into the Horizon, potentially yeilding different results. Would an altitude alert end his disorientation? Why would the controller issue an altitude alert? He was operating VFR, he wasn't required to hold any particular altitude. It might have. It largely depends on the exact nature of his disorientation - which neither of us know for sure. From what I hear on the radio, flight following is often a lot more than just traffic alerts... Like what? What do you hear on the radio? Everything from weather and turbulence reports to personal greetings and brief personal conversations - even sports score announcements! Many controllers seem friendly and are happy to assist pilots in any way they can. I think Steven's point though is that they can't fly the airplane for the pilot, which was essentially the original suggestion. Matt |
#45
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net: "Judah" wrote in message . .. It might have. It largely depends on the exact nature of his disorientation - which neither of us know for sure. Why would the controller issue the altitude alert? I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm. I also suspect that in the Boston area, a pilot might be instructed to advise prior to altitude changes, creating a query if he had not. I agree that an official Altitude Alert such as those you might get for being 200' below an assigned altitude on an IFR route would not apply here. But I have been asked to confirm airport in sight when descending VFR with flight following and even this could have woken JFK Jr. up... It might not have made a difference. Or it might have. Everything from weather and turbulence reports to personal greetings and brief personal conversations - even sports score announcements! Many controllers seem friendly and are happy to assist pilots in any way they can. But that's unrelated to flight following, that comes from just being on the frequency. I'm not sure I get your point here. Do most pilots follow frequencies as they traverse sectors so that they can listen for other people's pireps and traffic alerts? I always found it easier to just ask for advisories. |
#46
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
Judah wrote: I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm. Not while you are VFR. |
#47
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
"Judah" wrote in message . .. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm. Rate of descent has nothing to do with it. The controller is required to issue an alert if he is aware the aircraft is at an altitude which, in the controller's judgment, places it in unsafe proximity to terrain or obstructions. Since Kennedy was over water it seems unlikely terrain or obstructions were a factor. I also suspect that in the Boston area, a pilot might be instructed to advise prior to altitude changes, creating a query if he had not. I agree that an official Altitude Alert such as those you might get for being 200' below an assigned altitude on an IFR route would not apply here. But I have been asked to confirm airport in sight when descending VFR with flight following and even this could have woken JFK Jr. up... And if he'd been asleep a wakeup call may have saved him, but I don't think a low altitude alert would have relieved him of vertigo. I'm not sure I get your point here. Do most pilots follow frequencies as they traverse sectors so that they can listen for other people's pireps and traffic alerts? I always found it easier to just ask for advisories. The point is those things are unrelated to flight following. |
#48
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
JFK JR stacked the deck against himself in so many aspects that he
pretty much doomed himself and his pax before they broke ground. The what/if scenario's are plentiful What if: He delayed his departure for the next morning? He offered some poor starving CFI to go with him for a price? He put the wing leveler back on his a/p when he started his descent? He followed the coastline and flew to HYA and waited for the morning? He followed the coastline to HYA and took a ferry? He hadn't just had a cast off, was tired? was perhaps taking painkillers? How many martini's did he have at lunch? Accidents are chains of bad judgements, usually no one link in the chain is going to cause it but when you get so many mistakes and bad judgement in the chain then you pretty much leave yourself no options. It was a shame, I don't think he was a bad guy, and if I had $100 for every time someone asked me as a pilot "what happened with JFK Jr?" I could have had my commercial ticket now and paid for. Robert Steven P. McNicoll wrote: "Judah" wrote in message . .. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm. Rate of descent has nothing to do with it. The controller is required to issue an alert if he is aware the aircraft is at an altitude which, in the controller's judgment, places it in unsafe proximity to terrain or obstructions. Since Kennedy was over water it seems unlikely terrain or obstructions were a factor. I also suspect that in the Boston area, a pilot might be instructed to advise prior to altitude changes, creating a query if he had not. I agree that an official Altitude Alert such as those you might get for being 200' below an assigned altitude on an IFR route would not apply here. But I have been asked to confirm airport in sight when descending VFR with flight following and even this could have woken JFK Jr. up... And if he'd been asleep a wakeup call may have saved him, but I don't think a low altitude alert would have relieved him of vertigo. I'm not sure I get your point here. Do most pilots follow frequencies as they traverse sectors so that they can listen for other people's pireps and traffic alerts? I always found it easier to just ask for advisories. The point is those things are unrelated to flight following. |
#49
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
He delayed his departure for the next morning?
He offered some poor starving CFI to go with him for a price? He put the wing leveler back on his a/p when he started his descent? He followed the coastline and flew to HYA and waited for the morning? He followed the coastline to HYA and took a ferry? He hadn't just had a cast off, was tired? was perhaps taking painkillers? How many martini's did he have at lunch? It would have adversely impacted his ego. Ego gets people killed. Jose -- Money: what you need when you run out of brains. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#50
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IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?
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