Marine Corps or Navy

Of course I have nothing to back this up except conversations at the O'Club.

Probably a more trustworty source of info than any official
pronouncements out of Washington.

vince norris

Here are the figures for a PFT:

Run 3 miles: 18 minutes is a perfect 100 points. Every 10 seconds more is
1 point less. So if you run 23 minutes, you scored a 70 of 100.

Pullups: 5 points each, 20 is perfect for 100 points. And these are
dead-hang pullups, arms fully extended each rep and no body language.

Crunches: 1 point each, 100 is perfect.

Add em up to 300. 220 or is it 225 is a "First Class" I would imagine
officers are expected to be much much higher than this. Age comes into play
at 27, the scores are a little more lenient. But when I was in A-school in
Pensacola, I never saw an officer that couldnt outrun jackrabbits or do tons
of effort-less pullups. I sure as hell have never seen a pilot less than
herculean.

I forget the time frame but I believe their basic was 3 months just like
enlisted but the TBS was 8-9 months as opposed to our MCT (combat training
for non-infantry) was 3 weeks. So in total, your minimum basic training
will be almost a year. And that's before you go to your A-school to learn
the job you'll do. Dont know the numbers for Navy but I believe them to be
much, much shorter. So do you want to spend a year learning how to drill,
land navigation, water purification, squad tactics and fill out paperwork?
Or would you rather just get it over with and start working?

Also, you'll have to talk to an officer to get the full story, but I do
believe USMC officers have 2 jobs at all times. One is your main job (like
pilot) and other is something green side. Again, just something to ask
someone else. I believe it is a big difference between MC officer and the
others as far as that goes.

And as far as quality of life, oh I'd have to vote Navy or MC 10x over.
Just look at the location of the bases. That should tell you enough. It
depends on what you're looking for though. As far as selection of jets,
bases, assignments - Navy. I only know enlisted but as far as rate of
promotion, Navy once more.

As any active duty or prior military would tell you, dont listen to these
recruiters, advertisements, pamphlets, magazine articles, whatever. Find
out the truth from those within. It's a huge committment and they are very
good at making you see what they want you to see. Gotta weigh in the total
picture. Wish I could tell you more but I only know what little I know.




"R" wrote in message
m...

"Ogden Johnson III" wrote in message
...
wrote:

That if you're not fit enough to be a Marine right now, you're
probably not fit enough to go Navy, either. If you want to go
aviation, the better shape you're in the better. [And even if you
don't get aviation, the Navy doesn't need out-of-shape ground {ship?}
officers any more than the Marine Corps does.]

Is that really the case? I'm easily fit enough for the Naval PRTs, but
I hear that the Marines are much harder. I heard they do 15-mile "joy
runs" and that kind of thing... probably couldn't do that.

Not until you're well out in gruntland. I'm a little out of date on
the PRT/PFT, and they're doing crunches instead of sit-up nowadays,
but IIRC [and remember, I never took this particular form PRT/PFT
until I was in my late 20s] a 3-mile run in under 20 minutes, 80-100
sit-ups, and a dozen/dozen-and-a-half pull-ups would have done you
good in my day. [They were not "kipless" pull-ups. Kipping was
rampant in my day. ;-]

What killed me every other day in boot camp was that damned "twice or
three times around the parade deck" at oh-dark-hundred, 5 minutes
after reveille. ;- [The rifle exercises on alternate days were a
piece of cake.]

My reason for asking is I need to check the
Marine or Navy box on the NROTC application, and if I feel like I
want
to be a Marine, a few other important college options would open up
for me.

That's a first IME; that going Marine would offer *more* options,
important ones at that. In my days, the Navy always seemed to get
the
better end of the stick. ;-

Well, the Marines have that PLC program, which makes life easier if
your school doesn't have NROTC. Granted, my firts two choices due, but
there's a chance I don't get in there.

*But*, PLC does, AIUI, have an aviation guarantee, if you're
physically/mentally qualified and accepted. [Guaranteed that you'll
be ordered to flight training after TBS. After that, it's in your
hands whether or not you get wings.]
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

From a recent conversation with my-son-in-law who is stationed at TBS (The
Basic School) at Quantico I believe the goal is every Officer Canidate has
to run all distances at a rete of 8 minutes a mile or less. The PFT run
is
3 miles. I believe the the goal is to score 225 points + out of a
possiable
300 points. The three mile run in 18 minutes is 100 points, and 28 minutes
(the maximum) 40 points. Pull-ups are 5 points each, with 4 being minimum.
Crunches I think are one point each with 40 minimum. (I am fairly
confident
of these figures). But the minimum will not let you graduate from TBS.
IIRC
I believe he said the longest timed run was 7 miles, and it was in PT
gear.
However they do, forced marches with uniform, weapon, and equipment, of
longer distances. And they have the infamous "Hill Trail". I believe he
also
said that group runs (either in PT gear or uniform) were at a slower pace,
due to the need to keep formation.

Red

"Mike M." wrote:

Here are the figures for a PFT:

[Skipped]

I forget the time frame but I believe their basic was 3 months just like
enlisted but the TBS was 8-9 months as opposed to our MCT (combat training
for non-infantry) was 3 weeks. So in total, your minimum basic training
will be almost a year. And that's before you go to your A-school to learn
the job you'll do. Dont know the numbers for Navy but I believe them to be
much, much shorter. So do you want to spend a year learning how to drill,
land navigation, water purification, squad tactics and fill out paperwork?
Or would you rather just get it over with and start working?

Enlisted training has varied over the past 50+ years in durations, if
not concepts - shorter during VN, longer before and after. Now it is,
sort of, back to pre-VN structure. 12-week training curriculum + a
"Zero week" of 3-7 days depending on time of year/training load at the
MCRDs for screening, shots, etc. Followed by a four-week "infantry"
training course for Marines of all MOSs [that "Every Marine is a
rifleman" thing - in the late-50s/early-60s it was called ITR] before
going on boot leave and then on to their "A" school MOS training. [The
03s {grunts} now have an "A" school of their own, the School of
Infantry. In my day, their post-ITR training was at the tender
mercies of their Company Gunny, Platoon Sgt, and Squad and Fire-Team
leaders.]

Officers training varies by source of accession. For the Academies
it's the minimum, I believe one "Bulldog" summer for Juniors who have
indicated a desire for the Marine option. [Their boot camp was plebe
year.] N/ROTC Marine options and PLCs have two 6-week summer periods,
usually after the sophomore and junior year, of OCS-type training.
OCS, of course, does the three months/12-weeks straight.

TBS was longer, that 9 months you mentioned, pre-VN. It is now a
six-month course - as before, for all newly commissioned Marine
2ndLts. [There's a corresponding WO Basic course for all newly
selected/promoted WOs.]

Also, you'll have to talk to an officer to get the full story, but I do
believe USMC officers have 2 jobs at all times. One is your main job (like
pilot) and other is something green side. Again, just something to ask
someone else. I believe it is a big difference between MC officer and the
others as far as that goes.

All squadron pilots will have another, ground-side, duty. From CO,
XO, OpsO, down to TrngO, AvionicsO, and FltLineO. [The key thing is,
multi-piloted aircraft have more pilots, and therefore all those SLJO
{HumRelO, SqdnHistoryO, etc.} assignments that are in addition to
their primary ground duty are split among more bodies, 30 or so in a
helo squadron compared to the 16 we had in VMA-231. ;-] There are a
few specialist WOs/LDOs around for technical expertise. Few, if any,
pilots in the USMC have flying as their sole duty - I know I never
met/heard of any. And I have no reason for thinking the Navy operates
any differently on that score. Or the Army or Air Force, for that
matter.
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

"dano" wrote in message

In article ,
vincent p. norris wrote:
For a time, when I was in the marines, 50 years ago, I flew
airplanes that had olive-drab paint under the blue, visible where
the blue had worn off. I took it for granted that the army air
corps had given them to the marines after they had worn them out.

Aren't the Marine AH-1 helicopters handed down from the Army?

Only in general design. The Sea Cobras were new built for the Marines (and
rebuilt and rebuilt again). Compared to the Army Cobras, there are many
differneces including such basic things as the number of engines (Marine
Cobras have two, Army Cobras had one).

And when the Air Force tried to drop all the A-10s during GW1, didn't
the Marines volunteer to take them?

Not to the best of my knowledge. Many rumors fly about this, though, and
it's nearly impossible to sort out the facts since nothing ever got past the
back room discussion stage.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

And when the Air Force tried to drop all the A-10s during GW1, didn't
the Marines volunteer to take them?

Not to the best of my knowledge. Many rumors fly about this, though, and
it's nearly impossible to sort out the facts since nothing ever got past the
back room discussion stage.

That is like when the C-117 was going to the bone yard, the Marine Corps was
going to replace them with the C-7, possibly a turbine version. Somehow they
must have shrunk in the rain, because they looked a lot like a C-12 to me.

Leanne

"Thomas Schoene" wrote:

:"dano" wrote in message

:
: And when the Air Force tried to drop all the A-10s during GW1, didn't
: the Marines volunteer to take them?
:
:Not to the best of my knowledge. Many rumors fly about this, though, and
:it's nearly impossible to sort out the facts since nothing ever got past the
:back room discussion stage.

My understanding was that the Air Force wanted to free up the funding
in the A-10 program for more fast movers, so they offered them to the
ARMY, saying they would allow an exception to the prohibition on armed
fixed wing assets in the Army. The Army figured out it could fund
either the A-10 acquisition or the AH-64, and they wanted the Apache
more.


--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

dano wrote in news:dano45-E8A807.18002228102003
@lumberjack.rand.org:

In article ,
vincent p. norris wrote:

The Marines are getting theirs first now? When did that happen?

Astonishing! As O.J. said a day or two ago, the marines always seem
to get the short end of the stick.

For a time, when I was in the marines, 50 years ago, I flew airplanes
that had olive-drab paint under the blue, visible where the blue had
worn off. I took it for granted that the army air corps had given
them to the marines after they had worn them out.

Aren't the Marine AH-1 helicopters handed down from the Army?

Nope, all the current AH-1Ws were new buys, sent straight to USMC. I
teach the maintainers how to fix them.

Dave in San Diego
USN Ret

--
-
"For once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward;
For there you have been, and there you long to return."
Leonardo da Vinci

"dano" wrote in message
...
In article ,
vincent p. norris wrote:

The Marines are getting theirs first now? When did that happen?

Astonishing! As O.J. said a day or two ago, the marines always seem
to get the short end of the stick.

For a time, when I was in the marines, 50 years ago, I flew airplanes
that had olive-drab paint under the blue, visible where the blue had
worn off. I took it for granted that the army air corps had given
them to the marines after they had worn them out.

Aren't the Marine AH-1 helicopters handed down from the Army?

No, not even the same number of engines.

OJ- I know I never
met/heard of any. And I have no reason for thinking the Navy operates
any differently on that score. Or the Army or Air Force, for that
matter. BRBR

When on USAF exchange, many of the JOs had no other job than to fly.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Also, you'll have to talk to an officer to get the full story, but I do
believe USMC officers have 2 jobs at all times.

..... Few, if any, pilots in the USMC have flying as their sole duty

When I got my wings in 1951 and joined a squadron at Cherry Point, I
was promptly made the squadron's Navigation Officer and Intelligence
Officer.

I didn't mind; it gave me something to do when not flying, and I
learned a lot.

I can't say for certain that every other pilot in the squadron had
collateral duties, but I think it was the case.

vince norris