Landing on Tow - YouTube link.

On Nov 10, 1:22*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:


When this subject last came up some time ago, we had an informal poll
at our club of a mix of experienced cross-country and aerobatic pilots
and every one said they would opt for breaking the weak link at
altitude rather than try an on-tow landing.

Not one of us thought that trying a coordinated landing would be safer
than breaking the link. *Not one!

Mike


Nope. Not me. I am not doing that. I've never try to break a rope
before, and quite frankly, I don't trust my 35 years old ASW19 to
remain intact.

So I will do what I was trained to do from France, which is easy to
do:

- Open the airbrakes full.
- Go down below the tow pilot wake turbulence.
- Let the tow pilot set a rate of descent. He is in charge at this
point. And hopefully, he will remember to arrive higher on short
final!!!...:-)
I did this maneuver numerous times as a student, and later on as a
CFI. Really not a biggy.

Richard
Phoenix,AZ

I agree, breaking the rope makes more sense in the event of release
failure.

But, the notion that landing on tow is SO dangerous is really
curious.

Everything we do in gliders is potentially dangerous, if you screw it
up. If you do it right it's fun and satisfying.

Some argue that landing on tow is not necessary or practical.

Soaring is not necessary or practical. It's only fun and satisfying.

So is landing on tow. Especially touch-and-goes!

Matt Michael

"AndersP" wrote in message
...
ContestID67 wrote:


Being an instructor myself, I had a very interesting ride with a
(talented) student when I pulled the release handle to simulate rope brake
at around 330ft/110m in strong straight side-wind (i.e. 90 degrees from
takeoff direction).

The student turned around to land downwind, which was OK. But he turned
the wrong way since he didn't turn into the wind. Since we were practising
at a very large airfield I let him continue and he corrected his position
before landing since he was well off the centerline once the turn was
finished.



I guess he was not as talented student as you thought?

Nope. Not me. I am not doing that. I've never try to break a rope
before, and quite frankly, I don't trust my 35 years old ASW19 to
remain intact.


You and that sailplane had better stop flying altogether if you don't
think it is airworthy enough to survive a rope break!!!

On Nov 10, 1:06*am, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
This was discussed here recently. *JS was kind enough to drop by Jean
and share his experience with the instructors of the LVVSA. *Here's a
link.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT_IkCb4Tzk

I did a simulated double release failure touch-and-go, followed by a
simulated rope break as part of my Commercial glider ride in a 2-33.
Used spoilers as appropriate to maintain position - nothing
particularly scary about any of it, if done properly.

TA

It's pretty funny that people who haven't done LOTs think it's scary,
dangerous, insane, etc. and those who have done them think the
excercise is a "non-event".
Yes, the chance of needing it due to double release failure is about
nil.
The experience of completing a LOT is a confidence builder.
Done these in a few different types.
It's not dangerous. The three instructors, two of which did them from
both ends of the rope, did great on the first one.
Jim
Got to go, there are a few landouts at the Australian Club and Sports
Class Nationals and I'll need to crew.
http://www.keepitsoaring.com/LKSC/

On 10 nov, 08:31, Bob wrote:
I wonder how this would go in a Nimbus 4D? Any opinions? ;

I did that at Saint-Auban (France) in 1995 with one of their
instructors in the back of the Nimbus. Followed the rules: opened the
airbrakes and went under the slipstream. Not really difficult, but the
towplane must descend very slowly! In our case, whenever the descent
rate was higher than something like - 1,5 m/s (some 300 ft/min, if I
remember correctly), the glider started to overtake. I then had to
slip the beast to keep the cable under tension. That wasn't really
funny...

By the way, that was my first flight on type, and the towpilot was a
pupil with instructor.

This exercise is done regularily in Europe. In my opinion, the big
difficulty is the correct training of the towpilot. He has to know the
characteristics of the glider he is towing, and not forget to come in
higher than usual to allow for the gider being lower and behind. The
glider pilot should just have to follow...

Not this again. JS is spreading the LOT disease to Vegas! Bad Jim!

I suppose this is why he bought the glider with the noisy bit so he
avoids such DANGEROUS procedures as aero tow altogether. Thank God
you are SAFE now!

As with JS, I am amazed (but probably shouldn't be) at how many folks
categorically state that LOT's are dangerous - having never
experienced them. If these same people had never done a standard aero
tow, they would probably be exclaiming how dangerous that was. Maybe
if the "It's dangerous" types think of LOT's as a normal tow in the
negative direction you can get past the baseless fears.

Have done dozens and dozens of these with pre-solo kids, pre-solo old
folks, high time test pilots, and and everything in between, no one
felt threatened. It was part of the pre-solo syllabus when I first
started working at Skylark in the early 90's. In all that time I
observed only 1 "blown" landing that required a release due to the
USAF test pilot forgetting the briefing (which he gave) and began
manipulating the spoilers on final.

There is no need to go into low tow or for the glider pilot to do much
of anything unusual. Deploy full air brakes (no wheel brake), sit in
high tow, and let the tuggie set up a 5 kt down, 60-65 kt pattern
speed (Pawnee). Flair and land when it looks right. Use the wheel
brake only to keep the rope taught.

Or Not. I understand that being wrapped in cotton balls and standing
in the closet is pretty safe.

BT wrote:
"AndersP" wrote in message
...
ContestID67 wrote:

Being an instructor myself, I had a very interesting ride with a
(talented) student when I pulled the release handle to simulate rope brake
at around 330ft/110m in strong straight side-wind (i.e. 90 degrees from
takeoff direction).

The student turned around to land downwind, which was OK. But he turned
the wrong way since he didn't turn into the wind. Since we were practising
at a very large airfield I let him continue and he corrected his position
before landing since he was well off the centerline once the turn was
finished.



I guess he was not as talented student as you thought?


Yes he was talented, but not overly. He had been doing time in TMGs' and
needed additional time in pure gliders before being checked out for a
certificate.

Towing was therefore fairly new to him despite being completely capable
of manouvering the aircraft properly. This was his first rope brake and
I gave it to him a few hours after a thorough walk-through of all do's
and don'ts with our students on that day.

/Anders

wrote:
Not this again. JS is spreading the LOT disease to Vegas! Bad Jim!

I suppose this is why he bought the glider with the noisy bit so he
avoids such DANGEROUS procedures as aero tow altogether. Thank God
you are SAFE now!

As with JS, I am amazed (but probably shouldn't be) at how many folks
categorically state that LOT's are dangerous - having never
experienced them. If these same people had never done a standard aero
tow, they would probably be exclaiming how dangerous that was. Maybe
if the "It's dangerous" types think of LOT's as a normal tow in the
negative direction you can get past the baseless fears.

Have done dozens and dozens of these with pre-solo kids, pre-solo old
folks, high time test pilots, and and everything in between, no one
felt threatened. It was part of the pre-solo syllabus when I first
started working at Skylark in the early 90's. In all that time I
observed only 1 "blown" landing that required a release due to the
USAF test pilot forgetting the briefing (which he gave) and began
manipulating the spoilers on final.

There is no need to go into low tow or for the glider pilot to do much
of anything unusual. Deploy full air brakes (no wheel brake), sit in
high tow, and let the tuggie set up a 5 kt down, 60-65 kt pattern
speed (Pawnee). Flair and land when it looks right. Use the wheel
brake only to keep the rope taught.

Or Not. I understand that being wrapped in cotton balls and standing
in the closet is pretty safe.



The point was that it is unnecessary since it is an extremely unlikely
event. Balanced against that, it is completely unnecessary to train this
on a regular basis. There are other more important things to train, I
mentioned rope brakes and power loss on the tug as two good examples. I
think we can come up with a bunch of more useful things that spends the
money more wisely.

This is the type of emergency procedure that you can learn theoretically
and bring forward when necessary.

I don't fly around doing outlandnings for training purposes either, not
because it is dangerous or unsafe, but because most outlandnings poses a
small risk of damaging the glider. It might be as simple as a small
hidden rock in the grass that knocks a big dent in your fuselage. Or
similar.

Not dangerous at all, but completely unnecessary. For it to be worth the
risk I want a real reason, like the familiar "didn't find enough lift"

People claim that this is done in Europe on a regular basis, in which
country/countries may I ask ?

/AndersP