Which bird thermals the best?

So in a recent conversation with a greatly experienced soaring pilot,
I was told that Buzzard's have terrible thermaling skills. I tend to
agree with this as it sure seems Buzzards don't get into the core and
stay there. The lesson learned was don't let Turkey Buzzard show you
where the core is, just let them lead you to the thermal.

I thought it would be interesting to ask you good people if anyone has
any knowledge on these issues. Does anyone know which broad winged
birds have better or worse centering techniques that you can use to
your advantage?

SA

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:59:01 -0800, Scott Alexander wrote:

I thought it would be interesting to ask you good people if anyone has
any knowledge on these issues. Does anyone know which broad winged
birds have better or worse centering techniques that you can use to your
advantage?

About the best I've watched are kites - both the Indian Brown Kites and
the Red Kite that are now spreading across the UK.

You can tell thermal strength by watching them: the stronger the thermal
the more dihedral they use. When its weak their wings are flat and when
its really weak or they think they might undershoot the branch they're
aiming for they have slight anhedral and all the tip feathers are spread
and turned up. They never flap unless they absolutely have to.

The other top birds IMO are storks. I was flying models at a major
contest in Portugal near Beja where the field was dotted by small groups
of them. They were wary and would take off if you got within 50m, but I
never saw them flap longer than it took them to get up 30-40 feet and
they always seemed to slot into something and thermal away. It was a hot,
dry, thermally place, but even so their ability to find a thermal when
scared off at a time that wasn't of their choosing was amazing.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Martin Gregorie wrote:
About the best I've watched are kites - both the Indian Brown Kites and
the Red Kite that are now spreading across the UK.

I can't judge it, but I've heard that if there are Swifts, they are
pretty reliably in the core of the thermal (because their food is there).

The other top birds IMO are storks. I was flying models at a major

Not surprizingly, Otto Lilienthal spent a lot of time watching storks.

On Nov 15, 4:59*am, Scott Alexander
wrote:
So in a recent conversation with a greatly experienced soaring pilot,
I was told that Buzzard's have terrible thermaling skills. I tend to
agree with this as it sure seems Buzzards don't get into the core and
stay there. The lesson learned was don't let Turkey Buzzard show you
where the core is, just let them lead you to the thermal.

I thought it would be interesting to ask you good people if anyone has
any knowledge on these issues. *Does anyone know which broad winged
birds have better or worse centering techniques that you can use to
your advantage?

SA

In Arizona red tail hawks are the one of the best thermallers and
turkey vultures among the worst. It may be that the turkey vultures
are only interested in getting high enough to spot their next meal but
the red tails seem to soar for fun. They have no fear of flying with
gliders and it's always a pleasure to share a thermal with one or more
of them.

The red tails usually have the thermal well centered but I have on
occasion had one come over to me when I had the better core.

Andy

Penguins!

Buzzards etc have a much lower wing loading than we do so they'll climb
in small, weak thermals.

With their high wingloading then penguins can't afford to stop for
anything but the best.

Rarely seen soaring, but that's 'cos their inter-thermal speeds are much
higher (Wing loading again), and there's not many other pilots flying in
Antarctica to see them.

KN

On Nov 15, 10:59*pm, Scott Alexander
wrote:
So in a recent conversation with a greatly experienced soaring pilot,
I was told that Buzzard's have terrible thermaling skills. I tend to
agree with this as it sure seems Buzzards don't get into the core and
stay there. The lesson learned was don't let Turkey Buzzard show you
where the core is, just let them lead you to the thermal.

I thought it would be interesting to ask you good people if anyone has
any knowledge on these issues. *Does anyone know which broad winged
birds have better or worse centering techniques that you can use to
your advantage?

SA

Wedge-tailed eagles are superb. They aggressively push you out if
they find you stopping them centreing accurately. Best of all, they
do it in the blue at all altitudes. They are an unerring guide - just
don't make them feel challenged!

Pelicans are rarer in soaring country but I've seen them up to 6-7,000
feet. They are another species that won't flap unless facing
disaster. They slope soar regularly on the steep harbour shore near
me. Their habit is to move along the slope until they find where the
slope triggers a thermal and then circle away. Given their size (the
747 of soaring birds) they're a lot easier to see than hawks. Unlike
eagles, which just seem to instinctively keep in the best air,
pelicans seem to centre like us by rolling level for a short time and
then rolling back in to a new centre. Beautiful to watch.

GC

"Kevin Neave" wrote in message ...
Penguins!

Buzzards etc have a much lower wing loading than we do so they'll climb
in small, weak thermals.

With their high wingloading then penguins can't afford to stop for
anything but the best.

Rarely seen soaring, but that's 'cos their inter-thermal speeds are much
higher (Wing loading again), and there's not many other pilots flying in
Antarctica to see them.

KN


I think the Golden Eagle should be added to the mix of great thermaling birds. Though not as common as Buteos we often fly with them over the mountains of Idaho.

One should not over look the beauty of a flock of thermaling pelicans with their white bodies and wings with black tips.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

On Nov 15, 4:59*am, Scott Alexander
wrote:
So in a recent conversation with a greatly experienced soaring pilot,
I was told that Buzzard's have terrible thermaling skills. I tend to
agree with this as it sure seems Buzzards don't get into the core and
stay there. The lesson learned was don't let Turkey Buzzard show you
where the core is, just let them lead you to the thermal.

I thought it would be interesting to ask you good people if anyone has
any knowledge on these issues. *Does anyone know which broad winged
birds have better or worse centering techniques that you can use to
your advantage?

SA

White Storks. Although they can only fly about 30 miles on the flap,
they migrate 6000 miles on thermals. Due to the short flap range,
those that choose there wrong path over the Sea of Marmara drown
there. I've seen an estimated 1,500 in a thermal in Turkey.
Impressive glide also.

Frank Whiteley

Turkey Vultures are excellent soaring birds, but have a very low wing
loading and use microlift near the ground, which is often patchy and
disorganized. They typically don't soar very high because they eat
carrion, which they locate by smell (Just Google it if it sounds too
unlikely). They are generally not much use to glider pilots for these
reasons.

Vultures that locate prey visually soar higher and appear to thermal
better. These include Africa's Cape Vulture and the American Black
Vulture, both of which I've found like to join gliders in thermals.
Most eagles and largish hawks soar very well, as do storks and
herons. Their L/D is actually worse than most modern sailplanes, but
their advantage lies in slower flying speeds that translates into
tighter turning circles and having a very sensitive vario.

Mike

On Nov 15, 4:59*am, Scott Alexander
wrote:
So in a recent conversation with a greatly experienced soaring pilot,
I was told that Buzzard's have terrible thermaling skills. I tend to
agree with this as it sure seems Buzzards don't get into the core and
stay there. The lesson learned was don't let Turkey Buzzard show you
where the core is, just let them lead you to the thermal.

I thought it would be interesting to ask you good people if anyone has
any knowledge on these issues. *Does anyone know which broad winged
birds have better or worse centering techniques that you can use to
your advantage?

SA

I've been writing some short articles on birds and soaring. I'll
attach some exerpts from one here.

In Arizona and Coloorado the big wing birds I work with most are Red
Tail Hawks. But, when looking for the best cores the little Swifts
are THE best indicators... but you have to look closely to notice
them.

Swifts are a family (Apodidae) of small, highly aerial birds, flying
almost constantly except when at the nest or roosting at night. As
using rising air helps conserve their energy, these little guys are
real pros at working thermals, and they tend to find the best thermals
wherever they fly. They also have impeccable eyesight (about 10X
human eyesight), allowing them to see small insects in the air.
Amongst the fastest flyers in the animal kingdom, the common swift
(Apus apus) can cruise at 12 to 30 mph and is capable of 130 mph for
short bursts. Swifts not only can fly fast, they are incredibly
aerobatic, often changing directions almost instantly, which helps in
their quest for dinner in thermals.

Back when I was flying hang gliders cross-country, we saw them often
(commonly above 16,000’), and when we did, we knew we were in the best
part of one of the best thermals of the day. Sitting under the hang
glider, fully exposed to the elements, I had a “front-row seat” to
watch swifts dart around me in good thermals. It was not unusual to
see them zip in between my wings and flying wires, often within a foot
or so of me. Incredible flying accuracy. Little wonder one of the
première aerobatic gliders is aptly named the SWIFT!

Powerful thermals vacuum insects from the surface and propel them
skyward, and swifts have an uncanny knack for spotting these swirling
aerial food bazaars, utilizing them for high altitude feasting. In
the spring of 2009 I was flying with a friend, Ted Grussing, in his
Lambada motorglider on a good soaring day, and we worked some pretty
nice thermals going to and from the Grand Canyon. It was one of those
days when about ¾ of the clouds were duds, as far as good thermals
were concerned. On the way back, we glided over to the best looking
cloud of the day, and rode the elevator up. Seeing a swift dart by as
I was making the 3rd 360, I immediately turned to core what he was
in. Bingo! Our 12 kt average leaped to 17 kts in the tight core.
Yahoo! Crank & bank! The good looking cloud had attracted us, but
the swifts helped me find the best part of the core. The last we saw
of them was when we were pulling out at 17,500’. Those little guys
obviously aren’t concerned about class A airspace….

Bob T.
19