Boy Who Flew With Condors - Dick Johnson? Other Comments

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 8:35:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:

As to low thermalling, I've made saves routinely from 200 ft. Its not the dangerous big deal that many make it out to be

It is a 'dangerous big deal' for the pilots who have died or been injured because they failed to make a low save.

Well son of flubber are you telling me that for every AG pilot out there who is turning all day long at very low levels, "its a big deal"?
Hardly, its what we do, what we need to do, and we have learned how to do it safely under conditions that are a whole lot more critical than circling a glider at 200 ft.

I really dont blame guys for having the "dont circle low" opinion. Guys just havent been exposed to it, or if they've seen it, what they saw was some guy floundering around in a panic. If you spend any time with one of the older masters of soaring, they will tell you that they have all made numerous low level saves, if you talk to anyone who sprays for a living, they will tell you that below 200 ft is our world. I want to encourage us all to continue to expand our learning and our skills. Do I advocate to make a habbit of low saves? Nope, if for nothing else, it is inefficient flying, it takes a whole lot of time to extract oneself from a hole while other guys are cruising along overhead. But I encourage us all to gain the skills necessary to make a low level save a non event.

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 9:26:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
...are you telling me that for every AG pilot out there who is turning all day long at very low levels, "its a big deal"?

No. I've nothing to say about AG pilots who also fly gliders. But your saying that glider pilots should push themselves to gradually adopt the same personal minimums as AG pilots is absurd.

Whats obsurd is someone who doesnot want to learn every skill he needs to have in order to fly efficiently and safely. For glider flying that includes how to make safe low level saves. That is unless the glider pilot is one of those guys who is content to just float around at the top of the house thermal all afternoon.

Thats ok if thats his/her only ambition, but it has been my experience that that is the guy who spins in turning on his final approach. I stay miles away from those guys. They are also the guys who are a pain when in a gaggle.. Their eyes are glued to their airspeed indicator, oblivious to whats going on around them, these are the guys who refuse to even entertain any advice as to how to fly better. Those are the guys that make it tough on all the rest of us who are trying our best to be not only safe but also efficient.

Those are the guys who like to make "arbitrary" rules on how to fly which they want to apply to the rest of us. Those rules end up being useless at trully promoting safety as they are based on the limited experience of the rule makers, coming out of either ignorance, or fear, or both.

I am not directing this at you Flubber, i am just relating an opinion based out of my own experience with dealing with and conversing with the guys holding these "dont ever thermal low" perspectives.

snip

It is a 'dangerous big deal' for the pilots who have died or been injured because they failed to make a low save.

\snip

Incompetence on the part of one pilot is no reason to hobble competent
pilots.

As long as one obeys the laws of physics, and we're mainly talking angle
of attack here, the aircraft flies just fine. Screw up and pay the price.

OK, my flame suit is on, begin the "For the good of the masses" BS now.
I'm with Agcat on this one.

Dan, 5J

Okay. If this is an April Fool's Joke... you got me.

I'm just going to drop these links right here. No comment needed.

http://www.pacificsoaring.org/docume...antenbrink.pdf

http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

https://www-ee.stanford.edu/~hellman...2007_talk.html

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan, the second article you posted by Nadler should be required reading for anyone who desires to do more than float around the home field. I feel he nailed almost every point I have been trying to express.

One aspect he touches on that I feel needs more emphasis is the phenomenon of fairly low time pilots who happen to have the funds to afford high performance ships and play in the regionals. He points out that these guys "try" to immulate what they see the experienced guys do but without their own necessary experience to even know they are in trouble! This is so very true. I have seen it numerous times myself.

Talk on safety from someone that knows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2O-Dpw0Yfc

Thanks Evan for linking those articles. Great reads.

Best Regards,
Daniel