Bill Gawthrop "F8" Accident - Sun 07/13/2014 - His Status

Ramy associated my micro-burst landing with the cliff, I was clearing that up. FOUR pilots have hit the cliff at Truckee, two in G-103's, one in a DG-200 and Bill.
Time to do something to prevent the FIFTH.
JJ

On Monday, July 21, 2014 6:06:26 PM UTC-7, JJ Sinclair wrote:
FOUR pilots have hit the cliff at Truckee, two in G-103's, one in a DG-200 and Bill.

I know a DG-300 hit the cliff, if there was a DG-200 it was yet another incident. To be fair, one of those G103s had the spoilers jam full open on final, and a DG-400 also hit the cliff with one spoiler jammed open. One should also include those who stalled and pancaked in at the threshold of 19/20 during a low approach, I would be one (cracked the tailwheel and delaminated the lower rudder hinge), another was a 2-33 (pretty extensively damaged), and I vaguely remember at least one more.

On Monday, July 21, 2014 7:07:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, July 21, 2014 6:06:26 PM UTC-7, JJ Sinclair wrote:

FOUR pilots have hit the cliff at Truckee, two in G-103's, one in a DG-200 and Bill.



I know a DG-300 hit the cliff, if there was a DG-200 it was yet another incident. To be fair, one of those G103s had the spoilers jam full open on final, and a DG-400 also hit the cliff with one spoiler jammed open. One should also include those who stalled and pancaked in at the threshold of 19/20 during a low approach, I would be one (cracked the tailwheel and delaminated the lower rudder hinge), another was a 2-33 (pretty extensively damaged), and I vaguely remember at least one more.

OK, I'm convinced, Truckee is off my list!

soaringXcellence truckee is a great and safe place to fly. The only risk is if you do a low approach to make sure you hit the first turnoff. Otherwise you have long runway to safely land, and a cross runway as well with no cliff to deal with.
JJ, I completely agree with you that there is a problem which we need to address, but respectfully disagree with your solution to do a low base to final just in front of the threshold. I am pretty sure the common to all the crashes was either mechanical problem or low approach. I will be interested to know if any accident ever happened with a high steep approach as i recommend. Unless the wind is over 20 knots (not 10) I rather make my base at a safe distance behind the threshold and at sate altitude and do a high steep approach with extra energy, amd if i overshoot the turnoff so be it. Of course if someone end up low on downwind they should not turn base behind the cliff under any circumstance.
We should really move this discussion to the soartruckee mailing list as i suggetsed earlier.

Ramy

OK, I'm convinced, Truckee is off my list!

FYI I grew up spending a week every summer in a log-cabin (literally; no power and only a little running water) near Truckee. I was just a ridge NE from Donner Lake, and I have to say its a stunningly-beautiful area and probably has great soaring (not to mention being just an hour's drive from Reno so its easy to combo a trip to both Truckee and Minden).

I'm really looking forward to trying it myself sometime soon; I'll just be sure to be conservative in my landing pattern. Almost all ships from the late-1970's on have good dive-brakes and slip effectively when in landing configuration, so there's no reason to ever do a low approach (intentionally).... I'd rather be safe - and, if I'm being honest, I need the extra exercise that a long push back to the tiedowns might give me anyways. ;-)

--Noel

You know - people go on about dangerous sites. And some sites are a lot
more challenging than others.

However, it is generally people flying outside their competence, or
outside the bounds of good airmanship who contribute most to crash
statistics.

Much more important is that - at any active soaring field, there will be
a list of crashes at that site.

That does not make the site a no-fly zone. It indicates levels of
activity, and probably difficulty.

If the posters who say - "That takes it off my list of places to fly",
do so because of a sober assessment of their own capabilities and/or
appetite for risk - Good call. But don't say I will not fly at
x-airfield because others have crashed there.

It is perfectly possible to fly safely where others crash. sometimes it
is an "act of God" - think microburst. Sometimes it is a mechanical
failure. Generally it is a train of little misjudgements...

On 2014-07-22 04:07, wrote:
On Monday, July 21, 2014 6:06:26 PM UTC-7, JJ Sinclair wrote:
FOUR pilots have hit the cliff at Truckee, two in G-103's, one in a DG-200 and Bill.

I know a DG-300 hit the cliff, if there was a DG-200 it was yet another incident. To be fair, one of those G103s had the spoilers jam full open on final, and a DG-400 also hit the cliff with one spoiler jammed open. One should also include those who stalled and pancaked in at the threshold of 19/20 during a low approach, I would be one (cracked the tailwheel and delaminated the lower rudder hinge), another was a 2-33 (pretty extensively damaged), and I vaguely remember at least one more.


--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771

At 02:07 22 July 2014, wrote:
On Monday, July 21, 2014 6:06:26 PM UTC-7, JJ Sinclair wrote:
FOUR pilots have hit the cliff at Truckee, two in G-103's, one in a
DG-20=
0 and Bill.

I know a DG-300 hit the cliff, if there was a DG-200 it was yet another
inc=
ident. To be fair, one of those G103s had the spoilers jam full open on
fi=
nal, and a DG-400 also hit the cliff with one spoiler jammed open. One
sho=
uld also include those who stalled and pancaked in at the threshold of
19/2=
0 during a low approach, I would be one (cracked the tailwheel and
delamina=
ted the lower rudder hinge), another was a 2-33 (pretty extensively
damaged=
), and I vaguely remember at least one more.

2 cases of spoilers jamming open, co-incidentally at an airfield where
being short is critical. In 50 years of gliding I have never actually heard
of a case of spoilers jamming open before. Weird you might think.

Well there you have it! There MUST be something about this airport that causes spoilers to stick open...

Boggs

At 14:03 22 July 2014, Waveguru wrote:
Well there you have it! There MUST be something about this airport that
causes spoilers to stick open...

Boggs

Perhaps they should get Mulder and Scully to look into that before it
becomes a real problem and spreads to the rest of the world.

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:24:33 AM UTC-7, Don Johnstone wrote:
2 cases of spoilers jamming open, co-incidentally at an airfield where
being short is critical. In 50 years of gliding I have never actually heard
of a case of spoilers jamming open before. Weird you might think.

Not so weird, really, just coincidence at an airport where spoiler problems end up being critical. In the DG-400 accident, a spoiler pushrod disconnected (probably not seated properly on the ball, no safety pin), the spoiler sucked open and stayed there due to aerodynamic forces. In the G103 accident, the spoiler stops were worn beyond tolerances, so the spoiler fences went up too high, then aerodynamic forces caused them to foul on the upper wing surfaces on the way down. I believe that accident led to a fleet-wide G103 service bulletin.