dropped in D

I recently made a flight from Sumter, SC (SMS) to Columbia Metro
(CAE). Just after takeoff from Sumter, I contacted Shaw AFB approach,
told the controller that I was going to Columbia Metro, and got flight
following. Between Shaw class C airspace and Columbia class C
airspace there is Mc Entire ANGS class D airspace. As I approached Mc
Entire airspace, I figured that I was OK to enter because I had
established two-way communications with Shaw approach. After I got in
the middle of Mc Entire class D airspace, Shaw approach gave me "radar
services terminated, squawk VFR, for further flight following suggest
you contact Columbia approach on 133.4". Hmmmm.... Doesn't this mean
that the instant after he terminated me, that I was not in two-way
communication with the ATC facility (and unintentionally in violation
of 91.129(c)(1))? If so, what action should I have taken? Honestly,
I would have expected a handoff to either the Mc Entire tower
controller or to the Columbia approach controller, as opposed to a
"...suggest you contact...".

Also, 91.129(d) says "Each person who operates an aircraft in a class
D airspace area must maintain two-way radio communications with the
ATC facility having jurisdiction over that area." Where is "..the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over that area" defined? For example,
for the Mc Entire class D airspace, is this just the Mc Entire tower,
or do Shaw approach and Columbia approach also have jurisdiction over
that area? And if it is only the tower, then why didn't Shaw approach
hand me off to the Mc Entire tower prior to my entering the Mc Entire
class D airspace? (Note that the Shaw controller did not sound busy
and my flight path was such that it should have been obvious that I
was going through.)

Sorry for so many questions... I just want to do things 100% right
(well at least 90% of the time :-) )!

Arden

Interesting question. Without trying to look it up, I would say that it is
your responsibility to remain clear or make contact with Mc Entire Tower
when VFR.

You don't have a clearance of any sort so your path of flight as well as
altitude is at your discretion. If you are in Class B,C,D, then the
controller can give you vectors and altitudes but doesn't necessarily have
to under FF.

An example would be where you have established flight following and
announced that you are at 3,000ft. Then over Mc Entire, you decide to
descend to 2,000 feet. Nothing prevents you from to doing so under FF but
you would be compelled to contact the tower to enter the Class D.

But I'm just thinking off the top of my head.

"Arden Prinz" wrote in message
om...
I recently made a flight from Sumter, SC (SMS) to Columbia Metro
(CAE). Just after takeoff from Sumter, I contacted Shaw AFB approach,
told the controller that I was going to Columbia Metro, and got flight
following. Between Shaw class C airspace and Columbia class C
airspace there is Mc Entire ANGS class D airspace. As I approached Mc
Entire airspace, I figured that I was OK to enter because I had
established two-way communications with Shaw approach. After I got in
the middle of Mc Entire class D airspace, Shaw approach gave me "radar
services terminated, squawk VFR, for further flight following suggest
you contact Columbia approach on 133.4". Hmmmm.... Doesn't this mean
that the instant after he terminated me, that I was not in two-way
communication with the ATC facility (and unintentionally in violation
of 91.129(c)(1))? If so, what action should I have taken? Honestly,
I would have expected a handoff to either the Mc Entire tower
controller or to the Columbia approach controller, as opposed to a
"...suggest you contact...".

Also, 91.129(d) says "Each person who operates an aircraft in a class
D airspace area must maintain two-way radio communications with the
ATC facility having jurisdiction over that area." Where is "..the ATC
facility having jurisdiction over that area" defined? For example,
for the Mc Entire class D airspace, is this just the Mc Entire tower,
or do Shaw approach and Columbia approach also have jurisdiction over
that area? And if it is only the tower, then why didn't Shaw approach
hand me off to the Mc Entire tower prior to my entering the Mc Entire
class D airspace? (Note that the Shaw controller did not sound busy
and my flight path was such that it should have been obvious that I
was going through.)

Sorry for so many questions... I just want to do things 100% right
(well at least 90% of the time :-) )!

Arden

Arden Prinz wrote:
Sorry for so many questions... I just want to do things 100% right
(well at least 90% of the time :-) )!

First things first...
Have you filed out your Aviation Safety Reporting System form yet?

Go to: http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

(Arden Prinz) wrote in message . com...
I recently made a flight from Sumter, SC (SMS) to Columbia Metro
(CAE). Just after takeoff from Sumter, I contacted Shaw AFB approach,
told the controller that I was going to Columbia Metro, and got flight
following. Between Shaw class C airspace and Columbia class C
airspace there is Mc Entire ANGS class D airspace. As I approached Mc
Entire airspace, I figured that I was OK to enter because I had
established two-way communications with Shaw approach. After I got in
the middle of Mc Entire class D airspace, Shaw approach gave me "radar
services terminated, squawk VFR, for further flight following suggest
you contact Columbia approach on 133.4". Hmmmm.... Doesn't this mean
that the instant after he terminated me, that I was not in two-way
communication with the ATC facility (and unintentionally in violation
of 91.129(c)(1))? If so, what action should I have taken? Honestly,
I would have expected a handoff to either the Mc Entire tower
controller or to the Columbia approach controller, as opposed to a
"...suggest you contact...".

Interesting thread. I am curious to see what others think.

I have always assumed that VFR flight following does not provide
transition services to facilities that aren't on their field. Hence,
I would have called McEntire's Class D.

I run into this getting flight following around the OHare Bravo, and
crossing through DuPage's Class D. I always suggest to the approach
controller that I get a freq change to call DuPage tower, and then
give him/her a call on the other side. It works out well as Dupage is
roughly the boundary between OHare's SW approach (133.50) and North
approach (120.55). So it is like a handoff, but with a few minutes
talking to DuPage tower between approach controllers.

-Nathan

the middle of Mc Entire class D airspace, Shaw approach gave me "radar
services terminated, squawk VFR, for further flight following suggest
you contact Columbia approach on 133.4". Hmmmm.... Doesn't this mean
that the instant after he terminated me, that I was not in two-way
communication with the ATC facility (and unintentionally in violation

Most likely he had already given a call to the class D
tower and coordinated your transition as he would with IFR traffic.

of 91.129(c)(1))? If so, what action should I have taken? Honestly,

He didn't say he won't accept any further radio calls from you, did he?
Did he say "freq change approved"? Anyway, the action is quite obvious -
you should have called him again with a request for clarification,
because you didn't fully understand his intentions
(smth like "please confirm we do not need to call the ... tower").
"When in doubt, ask"

"Maule Driver" wrote in message r.com...
Interesting question. Without trying to look it up, I would say that it is
your responsibility to remain clear or make contact with Mc Entire Tower
when VFR.

I realize that it is my responsibility to remain clear or have two way
communications. Well, I had two way communications with ATC -- I was
in communications with Shaw Approach. Does that count? Normally I
think Shaw Approach provides approach ATC functions for Mc Entire.

You don't have a clearance of any sort so your path of flight as well as
altitude is at your discretion. If you are in Class B,C,D, then the
controller can give you vectors and altitudes but doesn't necessarily have
to under FF.

An example would be where you have established flight following and
announced that you are at 3,000ft. Then over Mc Entire, you decide to
descend to 2,000 feet. Nothing prevents you from to doing so under FF but
you would be compelled to contact the tower to enter the Class D.

I varied neither my heading nor my altitude.

Arden

john smith wrote in message ...
Arden Prinz wrote:
Sorry for so many questions... I just want to do things 100% right
(well at least 90% of the time :-) )!

First things first...
Have you filed out your Aviation Safety Reporting System form yet?

Go to: http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

Thank-you for the suggestion. I have never submitted one of these.
That's a good idea and I may do just that. I just printed out the form.
I was hoping that maybe I didn't do anything wrong.

Arden

(Nathan Young) wrote in message . com...
Interesting thread. I am curious to see what others think.

I have always assumed that VFR flight following does not provide
transition services to facilities that aren't on their field. Hence,
I would have called McEntire's Class D.

I guess I was assuming that since Shaw Approach provides approach
functions for Mc Entire, that I was OK having two way communications
with Shaw Approach (or that Shaw Approach would tell me when to switch
if I needed to switch). I guess that's what I get for assuming!!

I run into this getting flight following around the OHare Bravo, and
crossing through DuPage's Class D. I always suggest to the approach
controller that I get a freq change to call DuPage tower, and then
give him/her a call on the other side. It works out well as Dupage is
roughly the boundary between OHare's SW approach (133.50) and North
approach (120.55). So it is like a handoff, but with a few minutes
talking to DuPage tower between approach controllers.

That sounds like a good plan for the future! I may have just been too
used to ATC suggesting frequency changes vs. me having to suggest the
change.

Arden

(Vassilii Khachaturov) wrote in message . com...
the middle of Mc Entire class D airspace, Shaw approach gave me "radar
services terminated, squawk VFR, for further flight following suggest
you contact Columbia approach on 133.4". Hmmmm.... Doesn't this mean
that the instant after he terminated me, that I was not in two-way
communication with the ATC facility (and unintentionally in violation

Most likely he had already given a call to the class D
tower and coordinated your transition as he would with IFR traffic.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure how that impacts my requirement to
have/maintain two way communication.

of 91.129(c)(1))? If so, what action should I have taken? Honestly,

He didn't say he won't accept any further radio calls from you, did he?

The Shaw approach controller didn't say that, but did suggest that I
contact Columbia approach and obviously Shaw wouldn't be able to
contact me as soon as I started trying to contact Columbia approach.

Did he say "freq change approved"? Anyway, the action is quite obvious -
you should have called him again with a request for clarification,
because you didn't fully understand his intentions
(smth like "please confirm we do not need to call the ... tower").
"When in doubt, ask"

The Shaw approach controller's instruction was clear and what I did
was to take his suggestion and contact the Columbia approach
controller. But I agree that I should have asked for clarification.
Thanks for the suggestion.

Arden

"Arden Prinz" wrote in message
om...
john smith wrote in message
...
Arden Prinz wrote:
Sorry for so many questions... I just want to do things 100% right
(well at least 90% of the time :-) )!

First things first...
Have you filed out your Aviation Safety Reporting System form yet?

Go to: http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

Thank-you for the suggestion. I have never submitted one of these.
That's a good idea and I may do just that. I just printed out the form.
I was hoping that maybe I didn't do anything wrong.

I don't think you entered class D improperly. But ASRS forms are helpful to
NASA even if you did nothing wrong.

--Gary


Arden