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#21
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 16, 12:35*pm, 2G wrote:
On Oct 16, 6:33*am, Michael Dewitt Allen wrote: Florida Guy here... Commenting on the "Great North West Caper" in Washington State Seems like this Boggs Guy has it "Right On" again... If the "Plan" was to do a 180... AFTER a "Launch" on a tooo short rope... on a tooo short Runway... The *Genius that had suggested a "180 degree Return to Runway" Had to be smokin something serious. This "Plan" seems to have been "Doomed to Failure" from inception. While the "plan" seems to be seriously flawed, and contributed to the accident, it may not be the direct cause. Photos and videos clearly show the right airbrake extended and the left retracted. This points to a failure of the airbrake controls, which would be consistent with what most witnesses reported (he veered off to the right after doing a pull-up). There is an AD out on the DG-1000 airbrake control circuit. These controls hookup automatically, so an assembly error is not likely. |
#22
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 15, 7:49*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Oct 15, 4:34*pm, Michael Dewitt Allen wrote: You do not know what You have not experienced H'okay... |
#23
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Quote:
http://www.slv.dk/Dokumenter/dsweb/G...R1-E%20COR.pdf Colin |
#24
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 16, 9:35*am, 2G wrote:
On Oct 16, 6:33*am, Michael Dewitt Allen wrote: Florida Guy here... Commenting on the "Great North West Caper" in Washington State Seems like this Boggs Guy has it "Right On" again... If the "Plan" was to do a 180... AFTER a "Launch" on a tooo short rope... on a tooo short Runway... The *Genius that had suggested a "180 degree Return to Runway" Had to be smokin something serious. This "Plan" seems to have been "Doomed to Failure" from inception. While the "plan" seems to be seriously flawed, and contributed to the accident, it may not be the direct cause. Photos and videos clearly show the right airbrake extended and the left retracted. This points to a failure of the airbrake controls, which would be consistent with what most witnesses reported (he veered off to the right after doing a pull-up). There is an AD out on the DG-1000 airbrake control circuit. These controls hookup automatically, so an assembly error is not likely. One does a positive control check on this sort of stuff several times It is my theory the spoliers popped out from the force of the accident not prematurely as you may suggest. It is nice to blame the manufacturer on this sort of stuff however, I have my doubts and the sailplane should still be able to manuever with one open. VI |
#25
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 17, 12:41*am, Harold Katinszky wrote:
On Oct 16, 9:35*am, 2G wrote: On Oct 16, 6:33*am, Michael Dewitt Allen wrote: Florida Guy here... Commenting on the "Great North West Caper" in Washington State Seems like this Boggs Guy has it "Right On" again... If the "Plan" was to do a 180... AFTER a "Launch" on a tooo short rope... on a tooo short Runway... The *Genius that had suggested a "180 degree Return to Runway" Had to be smokin something serious. This "Plan" seems to have been "Doomed to Failure" from inception. While the "plan" seems to be seriously flawed, and contributed to the accident, it may not be the direct cause. Photos and videos clearly show the right airbrake extended and the left retracted. This points to a failure of the airbrake controls, which would be consistent with what most witnesses reported (he veered off to the right after doing a pull-up). There is an AD out on the DG-1000 airbrake control circuit. These controls hookup automatically, so an assembly error is not likely. One does a positive control check on this sort of stuff several times It is my theory the spoliers popped out from the force of the accident not prematurely as you may suggest. It is nice to blame the manufacturer on this sort of stuff however, I have my doubts and the sailplane should still be able to manuever with one open. VI Nobody is "blaming the manufacturer"; the existence of the AD is a matter of fact, not fiction. The wings and the portion of the fuselage aft of the cockpit are intact, absent of any crushing. In any event, inspection of the wreckage will confirm or deny the theory, and has probably already been done. The ability to fly with one airbrake out in level flight does not imply the same in a high G pullup. The unexpected deployment of a single airbrake in this attitude may be beyond the yaw authority of the rudder. In any event, the pilot could have been confused long enough that the glider got into an irrecoverable attitude before he realized what was happening. Tom |
#26
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 17, 8:46*am, 2G wrote:
On Oct 17, 12:41*am, Harold Katinszky wrote: On Oct 16, 9:35*am, 2G wrote: On Oct 16, 6:33*am, Michael Dewitt Allen wrote: Florida Guy here... Commenting on the "Great North West Caper" in Washington State Seems like this Boggs Guy has it "Right On" again... If the "Plan" was to do a 180... AFTER a "Launch" on a tooo short rope... on a tooo short Runway... The *Genius that had suggested a "180 degree Return to Runway" Had to be smokin something serious. This "Plan" seems to have been "Doomed to Failure" from inception. While the "plan" seems to be seriously flawed, and contributed to the accident, it may not be the direct cause. Photos and videos clearly show the right airbrake extended and the left retracted. This points to a failure of the airbrake controls, which would be consistent with what most witnesses reported (he veered off to the right after doing a pull-up). There is an AD out on the DG-1000 airbrake control circuit. These controls hookup automatically, so an assembly error is not likely. One does a positive control check on this sort of stuff several times It is my theory the spoliers popped out from the force of the accident not prematurely as you may suggest. It is nice to blame the manufacturer on this sort of stuff however, I have my doubts and the sailplane should still be able to manuever with one open. VI Nobody is "blaming the manufacturer"; the existence of the AD is a matter of fact, not fiction. The wings and the portion of the fuselage aft of the cockpit are intact, absent of any crushing. In any event, inspection of the wreckage will confirm or deny the theory, and has probably already been done. The ability to fly with one airbrake out in level flight does not imply the same in a high G pullup. The unexpected deployment of a single airbrake in this attitude may be beyond the yaw authority of the rudder. In any event, the pilot could have been confused long enough that the glider got into an irrecoverable attitude before he realized what was happening. Tom- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I wouldn't read too much into one spoiler open after the crash. The whole structure can move several inches during the crash, then spring back to near normal position. I can envision a side load in the wing root area that could unlock one spoiler, then during spring back, the push-rod bends or some other control linkage brakes and you get the photo showing one open and the other closed. I remember the near normal looking G-103 wing, but when I opened up the wing I found the aileron push-rod had a 30 degree bend in it.........indicating just how far the wing had bent before springing back. If the DG-1000 uses the same hokey torque-tube that they used in the DG-300 to drive the spoilers with the over-center lock mounted on a thin root-rib, that flexed easily under load...............the one open, one closed would be near normal situation. Cheers, JJ |
#27
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 17, 12:05*am, Harold Katinszky wrote:
On Oct 16, 12:35*pm, 2G wrote: On Oct 16, 6:33*am, Michael Dewitt Allen wrote: Florida Guy here... Commenting on the "Great North West Caper" in Washington State Seems like this Boggs Guy has it "Right On" again... If the "Plan" was to do a 180... AFTER a "Launch" on a tooo short rope... on a tooo short Runway... The *Genius that had suggested a "180 degree Return to Runway" Had to be smokin something serious. This "Plan" seems to have been "Doomed to Failure" from inception. While the "plan" seems to be seriously flawed, and contributed to the accident, it may not be the direct cause. Photos and videos clearly show the right airbrake extended and the left retracted. This points to a failure of the airbrake controls, which would be consistent with what most witnesses reported (he veered off to the right after doing a pull-up). There is an AD out on the DG-1000 airbrake control circuit. These controls hookup automatically, so an assembly error is not likely.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text If there is in an AD that was not addressed and the bird was flown, that would not be very good in this matter. |
#28
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 17, 2:02*pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On Oct 17, 8:46*am, 2G wrote: On Oct 17, 12:41*am, Harold Katinszky wrote: On Oct 16, 9:35*am, 2G wrote: On Oct 16, 6:33*am, Michael Dewitt Allen wrote: Florida Guy here... Commenting on the "Great North West Caper" in Washington State Seems like this Boggs Guy has it "Right On" again... If the "Plan" was to do a 180... AFTER a "Launch" on a tooo short rope... on a tooo short Runway... The *Genius that had suggested a "180 degree Return to Runway" Had to be smokin something serious. This "Plan" seems to have been "Doomed to Failure" from inception.. While the "plan" seems to be seriously flawed, and contributed to the accident, it may not be the direct cause. Photos and videos clearly show the right airbrake extended and the left retracted. This points to a failure of the airbrake controls, which would be consistent with what most witnesses reported (he veered off to the right after doing a pull-up). There is an AD out on the DG-1000 airbrake control circuit. |
#29
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 17, 8:46*am, 2G wrote:
On Oct 17, 12:41*am, Harold Katinszky wrote: On Oct 16, 9:35*am, 2G wrote: On Oct 16, 6:33*am, Michael Dewitt Allen wrote: Florida Guy here... Commenting on the "Great North West Caper" in Washington State Seems like this Boggs Guy has it "Right On" again... If the "Plan" was to do a 180... AFTER a "Launch" on a tooo short rope... on a tooo short Runway... The *Genius that had suggested a "180 degree Return to Runway" Had to be smokin something serious. This "Plan" seems to have been "Doomed to Failure" from inception. While the "plan" seems to be seriously flawed, and contributed to the accident, it may not be the direct cause. Photos and videos clearly show the right airbrake extended and the left retracted. This points to a failure of the airbrake controls, which would be consistent with what most witnesses reported (he veered off to the right after doing a pull-up). There is an AD out on the DG-1000 airbrake control circuit. These controls hookup automatically, so an assembly error is not likely. One does a positive control check on this sort of stuff several times It is my theory the spoliers popped out from the force of the accident not prematurely as you may suggest. It is nice to blame the manufacturer on this sort of stuff however, I have my doubts and the sailplane should still be able to manuever with one open. VI Nobody is "blaming the manufacturer"; the existence of the AD is a matter of fact, not fiction. The wings and the portion of the fuselage aft of the cockpit are intact, absent of any crushing. In any event, inspection of the wreckage will confirm or deny the theory, and has probably already been done. The ability to fly with one airbrake out in level flight does not imply the same in a high G pullup. The unexpected deployment of a single airbrake in this attitude may be beyond the yaw authority of the rudder. In any event, the pilot could have been confused long enough that the glider got into an irrecoverable attitude before he realized what was happening. Tom- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#30
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Soaring Accident in Washington State
On Oct 17, 4:59*pm, Harold Katinszky wrote:
If there is in an AD that was not addressed and the bird was flown, that would not be very good in this matter.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As JJ said, don't put too much faith in a picture that shows one dive brake out and the other in after a crash. Lots of things flex a LONG way and then come back to looking almost normal. Especially with a long lens from 1000 feet away. Are you also noticing that the aileron on the right tip is trailing edge down, and the aileron inboard of this is not? Condolenaces to all involved. Steve Leonard |
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