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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics



 
 
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  #51  
Old June 4th 06, 04:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:WKCgg.26391$ZW3.12835@dukeread04...
I stated that freedom was lost in 1968.


More like 1868 as the aftermath of the War of Northern Aggression ... :~)

Also, I was not
defending any "right-wing extremist" position. I did
recount the interview and the answer that the author made, I
was not characterizing his answer to a question, The
author, Keith Richburg said he was thankful his ancestors
had been brought to this country so he never had to live in
Africa. I would say that "brought to" is slavery.


Oddly, there have been several times more immigrants in the past 50 years
from Africa than were brought as slaves in the early 19th century.

I'm sure that if I had the money and time to waste, I could
get a transcript or even the tape of the interview. But I
will just drop the issue since it isn't worth my time to
argue about what you think.


I'll leave that last word alone as his typical hysterics and symantics belie
the word "think" (I can just imagine him ripping the arms off his chair).



  #52  
Old June 4th 06, 04:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Those *dangerous* Korean War relics


"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
newswCgg.26386$ZW3.16305@dukeread04...
You're so full of crap, YOU make assumptions and condemn
others without anything but your opinion and guilt. FO.


He's been listening to Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Major Owens,
birds-of-a-feather with GD in the middle of the moonbat nest.


  #53  
Old June 4th 06, 05:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:WKCgg.26391$ZW3.12835@dukeread04...
I stated that freedom was lost in 1968.


Yes, my post was in reply to Matt, who said the US ceased to be a free
country in 1864. (Similarly, the Civil War was the earliest event Steven
listed when asked to explain his remark that the US had ceased to be a free
country.)

Also, I was not
defending any "right-wing extremist" position. I did
recount the interview and the answer that the author made, I
was not characterizing his answer to a question,


You cited his extremist position (as you remembered it) in support of an
argument against reparations, and you cited it without any expressed
reservations. That context makes it an "approving citation", as that term is
ordinarily used. (But yes, merely arguing against reparations is by no means
an extremist or inherently racist position.)

--Gary


  #54  
Old June 4th 06, 05:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Jim Macklin wrote:
Traditional slavery would have ended when Briggs & Stratton
built their small engines.


That's what they said about the cotton gin. Didn't happen.
Small engines can be assembled by slaves cheaper than
by free labor, just like slaves could operate cotton gins
cheaper than free labor. Frederick Douglass worked in
Baltimore as a shipwright, alongside free men.

Aside from which, there was a moral imperative to end slavery,
period, instead of hoping and waiting for it to die out on its own.

Those states that voluntarily abolished slavery all did so prior
to 1820. From that time forwad slavery became increasing
more entrenched, even in Virginia which in the House of Burgesses,
came within one vote in the House of Burgesses of abolishing
slavery in the 18th century.

But, the sex slave trade goes on.


This, despite the ubiquitous availability of a cheap alternative--
what does that tell you about the Briggs and Stratton argument?

Slavery is rampant in other parts of the world today,
primarily Africa, Asia and the Middle East. The UN and the
Muslim religion support slavery.


Please elaborate on how each does. But let's change the
newsgroup to one where this is on-topic.

For perspective, damn near every slave in the US and every
slave owner was 'Christian.' Douglass had a bit to say
about this.


Importation of slaves was illegal in the USA after 1807, but
ownership was still legal. The South's economy was based on
hand labor agriculture, cotton.


And slavery had the effect of devaluing labor putting a ceiling
on the economic opportunity to free laborers. It was an institution
the ultimately demeaned the free man as well.

A lot of white people
fought and died to free the slaves. A lot of Southerners
fought and died to preserve their life-style. Both were
honorable. But slavery was still wrong and it ceased to be
the same after 1865. But there was still economic "slavery"
for many people working for low wages in company towns,
buying food and clothes at the company store on credit.


And sharecropping which was America's version of serfdom.


Laws change, society changes, hopefully for the better. We
should remember the past, so we don't continue to make the
same mistakes, but we must get over the anger and personal
feelings about what happened 50, 100, 150, 500, 2000 years
ago.


--

FF

  #55  
Old June 4th 06, 05:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

OK, from a state perspective I see your point. However, to me a free
country means that individuals have freedom, not just states. The slaves
in the southern states certainly wouldn't have considered themselves to be
living in a free country.


Agreed. Slavery was wrong, no question about that. But it was not
unconstitutional and it would have eventually ended here without a war just
as it did in the rest of the Americas, except Haiti, I believe.


Ending slavery without a war was tried in the US and it failed.

Escaped slaves and Native Americans in Brazil banded together
and formed their own nation (DAGS maroons) internal to Brazil that
fought for freedom for most of its ~75 year history.

Interestingly, some of the the leaders of the Haitian slave
rebellion were veterans of the American Revolutionary War,
e.g. commony referred to in our history books as 'French
troops.'

Lincoln is
revered today for preserving the Union, but he did so in only a geographical
sense. The relationship of the federal government to the states was
significantly different after the war. While slaves gained freedom via the
war, every other American was less free.


"If one man is not free, no man is free." There's more truth to
that than meets the eye. Slavery devalued labor, depriving
all laborers of freedom of economic opportunity. De Maupassant
wrote about the societal differences along the Ohio River. On
the North bank hard workers were respected and they could
advance their lot in society via the fruits of their labors. Not
so on the South Bank, where men who worked for a living
were deemed to be hardly better than slaves.

--

FF

  #56  
Old June 4th 06, 05:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Matt Barrow wrote:
"Neil Gould" wrote in message
om...
Recently, Jim Macklin posted:

Importation of slaves was illegal in the USA after 1807, but
ownership was still legal. The South's economy was based on
hand labor agriculture, cotton. A lot of white people
fought and died to free the slaves. A lot of Southerners
fought and died to preserve their life-style. Both were
honorable.


The petitions issued from the south prior to 1861 all regarded TARIFFS that
were deliberatley put in place to favor the industrial north.


Nobody killed anyone in bloody Kansas over tariffs.

How about petitions issued from the North, calling for the aboltion
of slavery?

Do you think any southern politician would have agreed to a compromise
abolishing both? Pretty much every abolitionist would have jumped
at that opportunity.



So, you believe it is honorable to fight and die to preserve the ability
to own people as property?


Gee...isn't hindsight beautiful? Wanna bet a months pay which side you'd
have been on IN REAL TIME? Bet that145 years ago, you'd been "Massa".


Dunno about him, but 145 years ago my great-great gandfather, an
Irish immigrant, enlisted with the Ohio 41st volunteer infantry.

--

FF

  #57  
Old June 4th 06, 05:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Those *dangerous* Korean War relics


Jim Macklin wrote:
I stated that freedom was lost in 1968. Also, I was not
defending any "right-wing extremist" position. I did
recount the interview and the answer that the author made, I
was not characterizing his answer to a question, The
author, Keith Richburg said he was thankful his ancestors
had been brought to this country so he never had to live in
Africa. I would say that "brought to" is slavery.

I'm sure that if I had the money and time to waste, I could
get a transcript or even the tape of the interview. But I
will just drop the issue since it isn't worth my time to
argue about what you think.


More to the point, the transcript does not support
what you said.

I'm glad my ancestors were brought to this country, and
that has nothing to do wiht them being enslaved.

--

FF

  #58  
Old June 4th 06, 05:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Matt Barrow wrote:
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:WKCgg.26391$ZW3.12835@dukeread04...
I stated that freedom was lost in 1968.


More like 1868 as the aftermath of the War of Northern Aggression ... :~)

Also, I was not
defending any "right-wing extremist" position. I did
recount the interview and the answer that the author made, I
was not characterizing his answer to a question, The
author, Keith Richburg said he was thankful his ancestors
had been brought to this country so he never had to live in
Africa. I would say that "brought to" is slavery.


Oddly, there have been several times more immigrants in the past 50 years
from Africa than were brought as slaves in the early 19th century.


Not odd at all when you consider the importation of slaves into the
US was abolished early in the 19th century, or when one compares
world populations. I'll bet more people died in the 20th century than
had lived beofor the 20th centrury.

--

FF

  #59  
Old June 4th 06, 06:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Those *dangerous* Korean War relics


Matt Barrow wrote:
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:WKCgg.26391$ZW3.12835@dukeread04...
I stated that freedom was lost in 1968.


More like 1868 as the aftermath of the War of Northern Aggression ... :~)


Is this a good time to point out that more than half of the adult
citizens
of the United States were prohibited from voting (the flaming liberal
state of Wyoming excepted) until well into the 20th Century?

I suppose for a socialist or a fascist the loss of power by state
governments might be considered a loss of freedom. For the
rest of of, it is a personal matter. I'll agree also that the minority
who previously enjoyed freedom became less free. The Nazis and
Baathists became less free when they lost power too.

--

FF

  #60  
Old June 4th 06, 09:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Those *dangerous* Korean War relics

Gary Drescher wrote:

So you, too, believe the US was a free country until 1864, but not after?


Define "free country" and what makes a country "free" or not.
 




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