Weight & Balance Question

I'm glad that this question has finally been addressed here. I'm really
getting tired of the flying magizines proudly flauting the W&B issue. the
latest most blauntent one that I can think of is where the 150 hp powered
Cessna 150 was featured with almost no difference between empty weight and
gross weight and yet shows the stout owner and author merrily flying off in
the air to air photos. Does the FAA just use these photo ops to help lure
borderline pilots into doing the stupid things? Shouldn't our magazine
editors/authors and such be some of our best examples instead of the other?
Do these "shining examples" make bordline pilots question the limits of the
regulations and aircraft designs? Anyone has thougths about this? R Little

"tony roberts" wrote in message
news:nospam-3A419C.15111925122003@shawnews...
I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for
some
alternative suggestions.

There are no alternatives to the legal answer.

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane.

This isn't a problem. If it is flying tomorrow before you fly, you phone
the FBO ahead of time and ask them to ensure that the plane is not
refuelled.
If it isn't flown before you fly you are left with 3 choices.
1. Pay for the excess gas to be siphoned out,
2. Fly it solo until you have burned off the gas.
3. Take the passengers one at a time

What you don't do is fly it 90lb overweight. There are a lot of reasons
for that -
It is illegal - not only will you be penalised if you are caught, if you
crash on takeoff you won't even be insured,
You don't know the characteristics of the aircraft at that loading -
stall speed, stall characteristics, your yellow, green and white arcs no
longer give accurate information, and if you have a problem and have to
land soon after takeoff you will be landing overweight which can damage
the aircraft.

In short, it is not one of your better ideas



Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE

I have a wonderful device called "Super Siphon". Stick the end in the
tank, juggle it, and fuel starts flowing out.

But I don't know HOW to juggle! I've tried, and I just can't do it! This
"Super Siphon" thing sounds amazing, but why do you have to juggle to make
it work? Does it matter how many other objects you are juggling at the same
time?

If they did or if there is still too much fuel (weight), I am
going to scrap the flight. I'm not going to worry about trying to get some
fuel drained. Given the background for this flight, I don't think it would
be worth the hassle.

That's fine for this flight, but I am going to use your post to ask a
question that I've had for some time. Let's say you do need to "dump fuel",
to get the weight down. How do you do it? Does the FBO drain it for you?
What do they drain it into? What would you do if you were at an unattended
field? Can this drained fuel be saved and re-used at a later time, or do
those bad FBO people keep it?

Harry, you got lots of answers and this may be too late, but: If the plane
is full of fuel it will not take that long to drain three, 5 gallon cans of
fuel... It is a high wing and you don't even have to get dirty... Just
remember to clip a ground wire between the can and the plane while the fuel
is draining...

Good question, btw...

Cheers ... Denny
"Harry Gordon"

"Just
remember to clip a ground wire between the can and the plane while the
fuel
is draining...
"

THAT bears repeating.......
over, and over, and over........
Trust me, I know.....
In my case I was filling a gas can and the arc that started the fire jumped
about 3 inches........
I had the presence of mind to put it out but the potential for burning the
gas station to the ground was right there in front of me.

=]8*O

H.
CPA S&MEL IA

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
Harry, you got lots of answers and this may be too late, but: If the
plane
is full of fuel it will not take that long to drain three, 5 gallon cans
of
fuel... It is a high wing and you don't even have to get dirty... Just
remember to clip a ground wire between the can and the plane while the
fuel
is draining...

Good question, btw...

Cheers ... Denny
"Harry Gordon"

why do you have to juggle to make it work?

Tsk, tsk, skeptics everywhere. You just need *faith*.

"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message news:0QWGb.1558
That's fine for this flight, but I am going to use your post to ask a
question that I've had for some time. Let's say you do need to "dump fuel",
to get the weight down. How do you do it? Does the FBO drain it for you?
What do they drain it into? What would you do if you were at an unattended
field? Can this drained fuel be saved and re-used at a later time, or do
those bad FBO people keep it?


I've done it a few times. First was at STL when all four pilots getting out of
the warrior told the line crew to just fill it to the tabs. We found the
airplane after dinner topped off. We waited while they opened the quick drains
into 5 gallon buckets. Since it was their mistake, they bought the fuel back
from us. Don't know what they did with it after that.

Another time was when I told a lineman to top off the wing tanks in a PA-12. He
also did me the service of topping off the aux tank where the back seat was
located. Only problem was didn't need, or want the extra 19 gallons, and
without the battery, they fuel couldn't be transfered out, so it was 114 pounds
of extra weight that I didn't need either. That they drained out into 5 gallon
buckets as well. And I don't know what they did with that gas either.

The only other times I've done it was when swaping wings or fuel tanks, and we
just dumped the jerry cans back into our tanks. I would assume that it would
work the same at an FBO with their rental aircraft.

My daughter said she would stay behind if I took her on a subsequent
flight - that resolved the W&B problem without having to worry about the
fuel. But then the fog and low clouds came in and we ended up canceling the
flight altogether.

Harry

I'm glad that this question has finally been addressed here. I'm really
getting tired of the flying magizines proudly flauting the W&B issue. the
latest most blauntent one that I can think of is where the 150 hp powered
Cessna 150 was featured with almost no difference between empty weight and
gross weight and yet shows the stout owner and author merrily flying off in
the air to air photos.

There was one about 18 months ago - can't remember if it was Private
Pilot or Plane & Pilot that showed a 150 conversion to a Texas
Taildragger. Useful load was zip but it showed two huge guys with big
smiles flying through mountains.
Ain't Photoshop wonderful?

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE

I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday, a Bonanza took off from North Las
Vegas airport, 4 adults and 2 children on board. It was'nt a V tail bonanza so
I am not sure of the model, but witness said the plane had trouble taking off
and climbing, somewhere after he started his turn right after take off, he nosed
in, all onboard dead.

this is what the news has been reporting about for the last 2 days, again, not
sure if it was overloaded since I dont know anything about bonanzas, but its not
worth the risk in my opinion.


Harry Gordon wrote:

I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for some
alternative suggestions.

Tomorrow, I want to take my daughter and son-in-law on a flight in a C172M.
We will be flying to an airport almost 50 NM from our departure point. The
problem is this: with a full fuel load, we will be 89 pounds over the max
(2300 lbs). The CG is no problem. The only issue is the weight. I don't want
to leave one of them behind, and I certainly don't want to leave myself
behind :-))).

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane. Should it be full
and I don't have the needed 15 gals of fuel dumped, should I be concerned
about being 90 lbs over?

Please be nice in your answers. I feel like an idiot even asking because I
am concerned and if it wasn't for the fact they are visiting us for
Christmas, I would take one at a time on two separate trips!!! And at the
same time, I'm not in a hurry to get us hurt (or worse) just in the name of
having fun.

Thanks.

Harry