Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.

Ed's were in Nam. Mine were in the ETO over Germany.

Art, I will trade you 25 over Pack 6 and and 25 over Pack 1 for your 50. For
the record, I've enjoyed your recollections of your experiences in the TO and I
humbly offer my thanks for your service to our country.

Steve

"Steve Mellenthin" wrote in message
...

Press guy then. Public information guy, whatever. Armed with a camera
and
notebook.


Actually, I think he had a typewriter.

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: ojunk (Steve Mellenthin)
Date: 7/11/2004 10:28 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Ed's were in Nam. Mine were in the ETO over Germany.

Art, I will trade you 25 over Pack 6 and and 25 over Pack 1 for your 50. For
the record, I've enjoyed your recollections of your experiences in the TO and
I
humbly offer my thanks for your service to our country.

Steve



Thanks Steve. I was 18 years old at the time and had nuthin' better to do so I
went to war. It tweren't nuthin'. (shy grin)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

I can't speak for a generation, but in 1942 my greatest fear was that the war
would end before I got there and I would miss the adventure of a lifetime.

War is attractive to youth. Americans love war. Most veterans will tell you they
were scared, wouldn't do it again, but deep down--their lives were nothing before,
or after the war.

Ed's were in Nam. Mine were in the ETO over Germany.

Art, I will trade you 25 over Pack 6 and and 25 over Pack 1 for your 50

Whats pack 6 and pack 1? Was it anything like the Ruhr Valley? (:-)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: ojunk (Steve Mellenthin)
Date: 7/11/2004 10:14 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I think Ed said he had 100 and I flew 50. So you still lead the pack. Well
done.

Thanks but I defer to one Paul Dembrowsky, on whose wing I flew on a six
month
deployment to Thailand in 72. He had 479 at the start of the deployment.


Sheeesh. The mind boggles as the blood curles. No one in WW II got nearly that
many.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

Sheeesh. The mind boggles as the blood curles. No one in WW II got nearly that
many.

Fighter pilots did. Average bomber crews probably only fly two sorties a week,
and they are much longer than a fighter sortie.

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: "D. Strang"
Date: 7/11/2004 11:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: 9lfIc.22545$r3.12181@okepread03

"ArtKramr" wrote

Sheeesh. The mind boggles as the blood curles. No one in WW II got nearly
that
many.

Fighter pilots did. Average bomber crews probably only fly two sorties a
week,
and they are much longer than a fighter sortie.


Bombers flew missions. Fighters flew sorties.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:49:11 -0500, "D. Strang"
wrote:

"ArtKramr" wrote

I can't speak for a generation, but in 1942 my greatest fear was that the war
would end before I got there and I would miss the adventure of a lifetime.

War is attractive to youth. Americans love war. Most veterans will tell you they
were scared, wouldn't do it again, but deep down--their lives were nothing before,
or after the war.


Your reply to Art sounds like the beginning of the George C. Scott
"Patton" speech--"American's love a good fight." But, the daily
blathering seems to refute that, at least for the current crop.
American's love to stay home and watch the latest reality show while
someone else does the fighting for them. They love to forget the
reality of life and the truism that "freedom isn't free."

Few veterans will tell you they were scared. They certainly won't tell
you that before the fight and few will confess to it during the fight.
Some will admit it years after the war.

But warriors WILL do it again and then again. The numbers of warriors
that served multiple tours in combat zones, that served multiple
overseas tours and separations from families, that re-upped and made a
career out of defending an ungrateful nation certainly were more than
willing to do it again.

And, their lives after the war are much more than those of the
pathetic whimperers who think nothing is worth more than self. Those
who kept faith with their brothers in arms walk taller than those who
turned their back on them for the political gains of the moment.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 7/11/2004 11:20 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:49:11 -0500, "D. Strang"
wrote:

"ArtKramr" wrote

I can't speak for a generation, but in 1942 my greatest fear was that the
war
would end before I got there and I would miss the adventure of a lifetime.

War is attractive to youth. Americans love war. Most veterans will tell
you they
were scared, wouldn't do it again, but deep down--their lives were nothing
before,
or after the war.


Your reply to Art sounds like the beginning of the George C. Scott
"Patton" speech--"American's love a good fight." But, the daily
blathering seems to refute that, at least for the current crop.
American's love to stay home and watch the latest reality show while
someone else does the fighting for them. They love to forget the
reality of life and the truism that "freedom isn't free."

Few veterans will tell you they were scared. They certainly won't tell
you that before the fight and few will confess to it during the fight.
Some will admit it years after the war.

But warriors WILL do it again and then again. The numbers of warriors
that served multiple tours in combat zones, that served multiple
overseas tours and separations from families, that re-upped and made a
career out of defending an ungrateful nation certainly were more than
willing to do it again.

And, their lives after the war are much more than those of the
pathetic whimperers who think nothing is worth more than self. Those
who kept faith with their brothers in arms walk taller than those who
turned their back on them for the political gains of the moment.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"


We don't agree on much, but we agree on that. Well said.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer