Sea Harrier FA2 - a modern-day F6D Missileer?

jokoch wrote:
What's the maximum no. of AMRAAM FA2 can carry? It has 2 wing pylons,
and if it uses 2 double rail pylons, that would be 8 on 2 wings.
However, I've seen drawings with 2 AMRAAM on the fuselage. That makes
10 AMRAAM altogether!!! Wonder what other plane carry more AMRAAM than
FA2 apart from superbug?

The max number of AMRAAM missiles a Sea Harrier FA2 can carry is four,
one each under each outer wing pylon and the other two under the
fuselage.

The FA2's Blue Vixen radar is claimed to be capable of tracking 10
targets and sending guidance commands to four separately targeted
AMRAAMs in flight.

Invincible WILL go to sea again, but it will be flying an Indian flag.

In message , TOliver
writes
"Thomas Schoene" wrote ...
Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads seem
to be rare as hen teeth.

Rumor has it that aside from the blue, inert exercise "concrete" versions,
the budget only stretched to a couple of dozen, held in a secret bunker
somewhere in Yorkshire, plugged in like recharging cell phones, awaiting the
summons to Armageddon...

Not *quite* that bad; the UK AMRAAM buy was sufficient to arm the Tonka
F.3s as well as give the deployed carrier her Blue Book loadout, with
enough left over (assuming we don't actually shoot any in anger) to tide
the Typhoons over until Meteor deliveries start.

Which isn't to say there are surplus AIM-120s piled up in corners, just
that for once Tom's overstating it

I suspect an actual weapons load of two per a/c is about all the acquisition
budget will stretch to,

The problem was rather one of the inevitable weight growth of ageing
aircraft, coupled to the high cost of a bigger engine, and expected
operations in weather charitably described as "too bloody hot for
comfort": in air temperatures of over forty degrees modern, a SHar with
four AMRAAMs couldn't hover at more than 'flameout in seconds' fuel
states. (Hence, in part, its premature retirement)


--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"Paul J. Adam" wrote ...

TOliver writes
"Thomas Schoene" wrote ...
Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem
to be rare as hen teeth.

Rumor has it that aside from the blue, inert exercise "concrete" versions,
the budget only stretched to a couple of dozen, held in a secret bunker
somewhere in Yorkshire, plugged in like recharging cell phones, awaiting
the
summons to Armageddon...

Not *quite* that bad; the UK AMRAAM buy was sufficient to arm the Tonka
F.3s as well as give the deployed carrier her Blue Book loadout, with
enough left over (assuming we don't actually shoot any in anger) to tide
the Typhoons over until Meteor deliveries start.

Which isn't to say there are surplus AIM-120s piled up in corners, just
that for once Tom's overstating it

I suspect an actual weapons load of two per a/c is about all the
acquisition
budget will stretch to,

The problem was rather one of the inevitable weight growth of ageing
aircraft, coupled to the high cost of a bigger engine, and expected
operations in weather charitably described as "too bloody hot for
comfort": in air temperatures of over forty degrees modern, a SHar with
four AMRAAMs couldn't hover at more than 'flameout in seconds' fuel
states. (Hence, in part, its premature retirement)

Thanks, Paul. I was engaged in a bit of ritual, nay liturgical,
cistern-chain pulling. I do doubt we'll ever see a harrier or any other
birds for that matter, RAF or USAF, actually "actively employed" with 4
AIM-120s aboard. A mixed loadout really makes more sense, and needing to
pull the gun pack to add 2 to the Harrier sort of narrows the a/c's
potential employment roles.

TMO

"TOliver" wrote in message
...

"Paul J. Adam" wrote ...

TOliver writes
"Thomas Schoene" wrote ...
Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem
to be rare as hen teeth.

Rumor has it that aside from the blue, inert exercise "concrete"
versions,
the budget only stretched to a couple of dozen, held in a secret bunker
somewhere in Yorkshire, plugged in like recharging cell phones, awaiting
the
summons to Armageddon...

Not *quite* that bad; the UK AMRAAM buy was sufficient to arm the Tonka
F.3s as well as give the deployed carrier her Blue Book loadout, with
enough left over (assuming we don't actually shoot any in anger) to tide
the Typhoons over until Meteor deliveries start.

Which isn't to say there are surplus AIM-120s piled up in corners, just
that for once Tom's overstating it

I suspect an actual weapons load of two per a/c is about all the
acquisition
budget will stretch to,

The problem was rather one of the inevitable weight growth of ageing
aircraft, coupled to the high cost of a bigger engine, and expected
operations in weather charitably described as "too bloody hot for
comfort": in air temperatures of over forty degrees modern, a SHar with
four AMRAAMs couldn't hover at more than 'flameout in seconds' fuel
states. (Hence, in part, its premature retirement)

Thanks, Paul. I was engaged in a bit of ritual, nay liturgical,
cistern-chain pulling. I do doubt we'll ever see a harrier or any other
birds for that matter, RAF or USAF, actually "actively employed" with 4
AIM-120s aboard.

You'd lose that bet in a hurry. F-15's routinely carry AIM-120's and can
realistically haul even more. Even the F-16 on a pure air-to-air tasking can
carry four. A photo of the latter, with one AIM-120 having just been
launched, can be found at:

http://www.army-technology.com/proje...Slamraam_6.jpg

A close up showing the wingtip and outer pylons of a Falcon loaded with
AIM-120's, with the armorer doing his thing:

http://home.pages.at/godi/bewaffnung.../aim120f16.jpg

A mixed loadout really makes more sense, and needing to
pull the gun pack to add 2 to the Harrier sort of narrows the a/c's
potential employment roles.

But "other birds", such as the F-15, can carry four of them *plus* a couple
of AIM-9's and *still* have their gun to fall back on.

Brooks


TMO

Thomas Schoene wrote:

Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem to be rare as hen teeth.

--
Tom Schoene lid
To email me, replace "invalid" with "net"

There was an issue of World Air Power Journal (RIP) that I once owned
that most definitely had a short feature on SHARs carrying AIM-120s,
and I seem to recall the four-shot loadout in some of the pics. But
that was a long time ago and I sold off my collection of WAPJs a few
years back, so I can't give you a specific issue.

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"TOliver" wrote in message
...

"Paul J. Adam" wrote ...

TOliver writes
"Thomas Schoene" wrote ...
Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem
to be rare as hen teeth.

Rumor has it that aside from the blue, inert exercise "concrete"
versions,
the budget only stretched to a couple of dozen, held in a secret bunker
somewhere in Yorkshire, plugged in like recharging cell phones, awaiting
the
summons to Armageddon...

Not *quite* that bad; the UK AMRAAM buy was sufficient to arm the Tonka
F.3s as well as give the deployed carrier her Blue Book loadout, with
enough left over (assuming we don't actually shoot any in anger) to tide
the Typhoons over until Meteor deliveries start.

Which isn't to say there are surplus AIM-120s piled up in corners, just
that for once Tom's overstating it

I suspect an actual weapons load of two per a/c is about all the
acquisition
budget will stretch to,

The problem was rather one of the inevitable weight growth of ageing
aircraft, coupled to the high cost of a bigger engine, and expected
operations in weather charitably described as "too bloody hot for
comfort": in air temperatures of over forty degrees modern, a SHar with
four AMRAAMs couldn't hover at more than 'flameout in seconds' fuel
states. (Hence, in part, its premature retirement)

Thanks, Paul. I was engaged in a bit of ritual, nay liturgical,
cistern-chain pulling. I do doubt we'll ever see a harrier or any other
birds for that matter, RAF or USAF, actually "actively employed" with 4
AIM-120s aboard.

You'd lose that bet in a hurry. F-15's routinely carry AIM-120's and can
realistically haul even more. Even the F-16 on a pure air-to-air tasking can
carry four. A photo of the latter, with one AIM-120 having just been
launched, can be found at:

http://www.army-technology.com/proje...Slamraam_6.jpg

A close up showing the wingtip and outer pylons of a Falcon loaded with
AIM-120's, with the armorer doing his thing:

http://home.pages.at/godi/bewaffnung.../aim120f16.jpg

In the aftermath of 9/11, US-based F-16s were patrolling with 4 x AIM-120 and 2 x
AIM-9s (plus 3 tanks).

A mixed loadout really makes more sense, and needing to
pull the gun pack to add 2 to the Harrier sort of narrows the a/c's
potential employment roles.

But "other birds", such as the F-15, can carry four of them *plus* a couple
of AIM-9's and *still* have their gun to fall back on.

4/4, 6/2, or 8/0. The F-15E and export siblings, at least, can carry AIM-120s on
the pylon shoulder stations. I don't know if the As through Ds are so wired. I
remember an article a few years ago saying that there was a bit of a conflict
between armorers and F-15E pilots, at least at the base mentioned in the article.
They typically were carrying 2/2 on the pylon shoulders. IIRR the pilots wanted
the AIM-9s on the outsides, to improve seeker FOV for lock-on, while the armorers
wanted the AIM-120s there because there was limited space for loading/unloading
them on the inside of the pylons. I've seen photos of them both ways, as well as
operational a/c carrying four of one or the other.

Guy



Brooks


TMO

Paul J. Adam wrote:

"Thomas Schoene" wrote ...

Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem
to be rare as hen teeth.

[snip]

Which isn't to say there are surplus AIM-120s piled up in corners, just
that for once Tom's overstating it

Hey, I didn't say the missile's don't exist, just that pictures of them
are hard to find.

--
Tom Schoene lid
To email me, replace "invalid" with "net"

Typhoon502 wrote:
Thomas Schoene wrote:


Unfortunately, pictures of real Sea Harriers with live missile loads
seem to be rare as hen teeth.


There was an issue of World Air Power Journal (RIP) that I once owned
that most definitely had a short feature on SHARs carrying AIM-120s,
and I seem to recall the four-shot loadout in some of the pics. But
that was a long time ago and I sold off my collection of WAPJs a few
years back, so I can't give you a specific issue.

I might well have that one in a box somewhere. I'll look. In the
meantime, there are a couple of Sea Harrier/AMRAAM images he

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...eaharrier.html

--
Tom Schoene lid
To email me, replace "invalid" with "net"

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:23:47 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

4/4, 6/2, or 8/0. The F-15E and export siblings, at least, can carry AIM-120s on
the pylon shoulder stations. I don't know if the As through Ds are so wired. I
remember an article a few years ago saying that there was a bit of a conflict
between armorers and F-15E pilots, at least at the base mentioned in the article.
They typically were carrying 2/2 on the pylon shoulders. IIRR the pilots wanted
the AIM-9s on the outsides, to improve seeker FOV for lock-on, while the armorers
wanted the AIM-120s there because there was limited space for loading/unloading
them on the inside of the pylons. I've seen photos of them both ways, as well as
operational a/c carrying four of one or the other.

Guy

All of the remaining USAF F-15A-D aicraft have MSIP, which allows
AMRAAM on 2A, 2B, 8A, 8B. I think all of the LAU-114 launchers (AIM-9
only) are gone and only LAU-128 launchers remain.

If you look he
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123019067
you will see 3xAIM-120 and 1xAIM-9.
(Plus 2xGBU-12, 2xGBU-38, 2x600 gal fuel tank, LANTIRN Nav pod &
Sniper targeting pod. And the VHF/UHF antenna for radio 1.
Interesting load out.)

--Rolf