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#21
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
john smith wrote: In article , Stefan wrote: http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4683/11dy6.jpg http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5328/5oy9.jpg http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2266/dscf0034vm0.jpg http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2240/14nx6.jpg Wow. I wonder if the control surfaces would still have been controllable from the cockpit if the plane was equipped with a fly-by-wire system instead of conventional mechanical controls. |
#22
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:41:06 -0400, "Darkwing"
theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote in : http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/...0025/-1/REGION While pilot Annette Saunders handled her Hawker 800XP admirably after colliding with the glider, why she obviously failed to give way is a mystery. |
#23
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
On 30 Aug 2006 14:27:37 -0700, "Kingfish" wrote
in . com: What is a glider doing up at an oxygen altitude of 16,000ft? He's probably working a mountain wave. Gliders often operate above 20,000' while in contact with ATC. Isn't that a tad close to the Class A? An inch is as good as a mile. :-) While both pilots must comply with the see-and-avoid regulation, or course the glider category has the right of way over powered airplanes. |
#24
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
Larry Dighera wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:41:06 -0400, "Darkwing" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote in : http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/...0025/-1/REGION While pilot Annette Saunders handled her Hawker 800XP admirably after colliding with the glider, why she obviously failed to give way is a mystery. Here is one mo http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/mi...rt&cachetime=0 -Nik |
#25
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
On 30 Aug 2006 18:05:28 -0700, "rps" wrote:
john smith wrote: In article , Stefan wrote: http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4683/11dy6.jpg http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5328/5oy9.jpg http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2266/dscf0034vm0.jpg http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2240/14nx6.jpg Wow. I wonder if the control surfaces would still have been controllable from the cockpit if the plane was equipped with a fly-by-wire system instead of conventional mechanical controls. I allegedly maintain a couple of 800's. Hawkers are built hell-for-stout and as you indicate are an old-fashioned "mechanical" airplane. Been that way since the early '60's (first flew in '62?) Did you hear about the one that survived the SAM strike? TC |
#26
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:33:09 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote in : The category preference only applies to aircraft converging from other than head on (apply directly to the forehead). That's not what it says he http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text... .1.3.10.2.4.7 § 91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations. (a) Inapplicability. This section does not apply to the operation of an aircraft on water. (b) General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual flight rules, vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way, the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear. (c) In distress. An aircraft in distress has the right-of-way over all other air traffic. (d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the aircraft are of different categories— (1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of aircraft; (2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. (3) An airship has the right-of-way over a powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. However, an aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft has the right-of-way over all other engine-driven aircraft. (e) Approaching head-on. When aircraft are approaching each other head-on, or nearly so, each pilot of each aircraft shall alter course to the right. (f) Overtaking. Each aircraft that is being overtaken has the right-of-way and each pilot of an overtaking aircraft shall alter course to the right to pass well clear. (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft. [Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34294, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-282, 69 FR 44880, July 27, 2004] ---------------------------------- |
#27
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:33:09 -0400, Ron Natalie wrote in : The category preference only applies to aircraft converging from other than head on (apply directly to the forehead). That's not what it says he That's funny. The regulation you quoted in your post says *exactly* what Ron said it does. That IS "what is says here". You ought to read things before you post them. (And if you're going to use a newsreader that doesn't double-check your Newsgroups: field, you need to do a better job spell-checking...not that I have any idea why you decided to add the r.a.gliding newsgroup anyway). |
#28
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
Anyone have an N-number yet?
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#29
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
Ron Natalie wrote: Who the hell said anything about right of way here. Both aircraft have a duty to see and avoid. The category preference only applies to aircraft converging from other than head on (apply directly to the forehead). I'm sure the NTSB will give study as to what the actual tracks were and what the visual vantages were from both ships. Having watched gliders from the ground and air, I've noticed that from directly in front or behind, they nearly disappear because of the very narrow wings and fuselage. If a jet is heading nearly head-on, I imagine it will be nearly impossible to spot the glider until a collision is all but avoidable, and that's if you know it's there. The jet itself would only be somewhat more visible head-on. I haven't been soaring that high, but I imagine this is a good example of why flight following is a good thing. It isn't perfect, but it can't hurt. |
#30
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:10:59 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in : "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:33:09 -0400, Ron Natalie wrote in : The category preference only applies to aircraft converging from other than head on (apply directly to the forehead). That's not what it says he That's funny. The regulation you quoted in your post says *exactly* what Ron said it does. That IS "what is says here". We disagree. I know what you're going to tell me, that this: (2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. only applies when: (d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), However, that is only applicable when the aircraft are of the same category. In this instance, they aren't. If you believe that this: (e) Approaching head-on. When aircraft are approaching each other head-on, or nearly so, each pilot of each aircraft shall alter course to the right. Overrules (2) above, then please explain how a balloon (given the right-of-way in (d)(1)) can alter course to the right. If (e) negates (d)(3), then it also negates (d)(1). I have a very difficult time believing that the regulation doesn't grant balloons the right of way over all other aircraft. You ought to read things before you post them. Of course, I did. We just read them differently. |
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