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I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!



 
 
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  #101  
Old December 6th 05, 02:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Morgans wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote


If you have a whole bunch of time to kill, google Mini-500, with the field
of search locations being this newsgroup.



Absolutely. You will see many unfounded accusation just like what this
guy posted, and to each and every one I gave a response with the factual
information, just like I'm about to do now....


I'll try to put out some of the high points (low points) of other's
accusations against the 500. I'm sure others could add much more, but most
of them are no longer active in this group.



Right, they got tired of being proved wrong.


The engine in the mini was running at something like 130% of the
manufacturer's recommended power level. It had to be re-jetted to produce
that much power, and had a horrible TBO and mean time between failures.



Where on earth did you get this information? Did you make it up??
Morgans, you really have no idea of what you are spouting off about.

Do you know anything about helicopters, and how the engine works? Do you
know that in a helicopter you can fly at 70% power and still be at 100% RPM?

Did you know that by running the engine at one RPM and varying the power
setting was better than varying the RPM and power settings? Our TBO's
were higher than Rotax engines being used in airplanes. We never had a
single engine failure due to overexertion of the engine.


It barely had enough power to get out of ground effect hover, so climbout
was so slow that if took much longer than usual to get enough altitude that
an autorotation could be successfully pulled off.



What? Have you ever seen a Mini-500 fly? Have you ever been to Oshkosh
or Sun & Fun and watched a Mini-500 perform and out-fly all the other
designs? Didn't you ever read the flight report that KitPlanes magazine
did, or all the other flight reviews from other magazines?

Everyone said that the Mini-500 was one of the finest helicopers they
ever flew, and it autoroted very well.


Major parts (necessary for safe flight) were not designed with enough safety
margin, with excessive slop, and failed after very short run times.



Not true at all. We had some parts wareout, mostly due to a customer
flying their Mini-500 40 hours without tracking and balancing the
aircraft. Yes, we also had some design problems, but we corrected them all.


There were problems getting parts in a timely manner for some customers,
even though they had been paid for.



Not true at all. We always had parts in stock, shipped same or next day.
As for one of the AD changes, it took time to test our repairs, and as
soon as they were appoeved, they were shipped, and not paid for until
they were ready to go.


When the engine packed it in, it tended to tuck over very quickly, and crash
at a steep angle. IIRC, a stabilizer was added to help protect against this
trait.



Absolutely a bunch of crap. No Mini-500 crashed from too steep of an
autorotation. Something else you made up??

Not true again, the problem came from a few customers taking the bad
advice from another customer and set the autorotation angle of the main
blades to -1.5 degrees instead of the factory -0.5 degrees, because he
said it would inter at a lower altitude. This made the nose drop
suddenly when interring autorotations.

Also, as it said in the pilots manual. Lead with cyclic before
collective, or the nose would drop more than normal. We even came up
with a modification that took all nose drop out even if you forgot to
lead with cyclic.

"....tucked over very quickly and crashed!!!" What an uninformed idiot
you are!


Many people had close friends die in them, and contrary to what has been
said, many were highly experienced rotorcraft pilots. They were declared
pilot error, but it might be said that no pilot could have saved them in
similar situations.

Long to short, if the engine died, you died. The engines died way too
often.



Are your eyes brown? Your eyes are brown, aren't they!.... because you
are FUUUUUULLL of it!


You are talking about Allen Barklige, and I answered that some time ago.
Here, this is from a post I did on 8/15/2005 concerning Allen:

Cut
Dear Mr. O'Brien

Let's look at this for a moment:

The witness was on the airport, and the Mini-500 was 150 or less above
him, and still over the airport. The power lines are about 1000 feet
away from the witness. Already 150 feet high over the witness, Allen
only climbed 50 more feet over a 1000 foot distance to clear a power
line complex. It shows that he had no concern about climbing high
enough, as we are all trained to do to clear an obstacle in case of
engine failure. Pilot error.

It was 83 degrees F. The witness, standing on the opposite side on a
large hanger, heard the Mini-500 running behind the hanger complex, then
he watched it fly from around the hanger making a wide and level turn
towards him climbing to 150 feet or so, then flying away almost 900 feet
before the engine failed. The point is, between the mandatory warm-up
time, hover time, flying from around the hanger time, wide level turn
time, flying toward the witness while climbing to 150 feet time, and
flying 900 feet away while climbing an additional 50 feet time, the
Mini-500 had plenty of warm up time not to have cold seizure.

Cold seizures in a Mini-500 have only happened when the pilot starts the
engine cold, and immediately lifts into a climbing departure, and then
the engine will seize within 100 feet or so and not turn until later
after the piston cooled enough to allow it to do so. It's Pilot error.

Look at the report:
"The top of the piston showed foreign material impact strikes in the
squish-band area. Small particles of foreign metallic material were
found embedded in the piston head. Impact marks were found in the top
dome of the power-takeoff cylinder. The two power-takeoff cylinder spark
plugs' electrodes showed no gap. The bottom of both electrodes showed
impact marks." "the sound (engine sound) went quiet, followed by a pop".

Again, dose that sound like an engine that just cold seized, when the
engine can still turn to allow a "pop" from a misfire. The engine quit
because the spark plug gaps were closed from the previous contamination
pounding them shut.

Dose that sound like something was COLD? Not at all. That was an engine
failure due to disintegration of parts. Just like if you seize an
engine, and then run it again without fixing it by removing the damaged
parts and metal, and just like what I said when Allen himself called me
to tell me he seized his engine and he didn't bother to fix it right
before the crash. The engine got hot, and darn hot at that. Nothing cold
about it. In fact, a cold seizure shows only scuffing from sudden
expansion of the piston squeezing in the cylinder, because the cylinder
was not given time to expand. You will not find the metal as what was
found in Allen's engine that was large enough to de-gap the plugs.

Worse yet, he hugs the ground during his flight, and flies over a

power line complex without gaining altitude.


Witness: "It was approximately 200 feet above the ground."
Source:

https://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp...FA353& akey=1



Just like I said. 200 feet high and 1000 feet away from the airport
property boundries, and only climed 50 more feet in that distance from
the airport. Pilot error.


The engine finally failed over the lines, and he tried to milk the

rotor rpm for more than any helicopter could have offered, and nosed
into the ground after stalling the blades.


The witness also noted that "The helicopter did not do a nose tuck,"

which indicates some familiarity with the type, if he was expecting that.


I didn't say it did a "nose tuck". I said it nosed into ground after
stalling the blades, meaning the nose pointing the direction of travel.
As the report indicated, he still had some forward speed, just no lift
and little RPM, as the blade damage described in the report would indicate.
Ads
  #102  
Old December 6th 05, 02:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Matt Whiting wrote:
I'm in the same boat as you. I know little about Dennis or his
helicopter(s). I know little about his detractors here. However, just
from reading the diatribes that crop up here every two years, I
personally think that Dennis comes across at least as credible as his
detractors. Most seem to just foam at the mouth a lot and make
accusations that they can't back up when he calls their bluff. It tends
to be entertaining for about five posts and then is just stupid.


Matt



Hello Matt,

Thank for taking the time to read them. Congratulations, you are now one
of my so-called aliases, as you will soon be called by one of these
yahoos here.

But, again, thanks for taking the time to read before just judging.


Dennis Fetters

Designer of;
Air Command 1/plcs Gyroplanes
Air Command 2/plcs Gyroplanes
Mini-500 1/Plcs Helicopter
Voyager-500 2/Plcs Helicopter
Excalibur 5/Plcs Turbine Helicopter
Star-Lite-A VTUAV Helicopter
Star-Lite-B VTUAV Helicopter
  #103  
Old December 6th 05, 03:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Matt Whiting wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:

In article [email protected]_s71,
"C.D.Damron" wrote:


"Dennis Fetters" wrote in message
. com...

If you had some real-earth experience in what you were saying, then you
would not be saying it.


You don't have to design and market a helicopter to understand that you
should probably design and test your product adequately before
selling it.
Call me old fashioned, but that is how I think it should be done,
especially
if lives are at stake.




Maybe you "should," but if that were the business model prevalent in
the real world today, Microsoft wouldn't be who they are. Imagine a
product or service that needs to be "patched' every three days or so
being successful in the market place. Utterly incomprehensible to Mac
users and other men of proper wit. Snake oil goes by a lot of
different monikers in different industries, but it isn't likely to be
pulled off the shelves any time soon. Caveat Emptor.

While I have the virtual floor, I'll add that I don't know anything
about Mr. Fetters or his products, but since neither he nor his
detractors seem able to discuss the issues like gentlemen, I put
little credence in anything said here on this topic. That's
unfortunate, because while I might have learned something interesting
if not useful, all I've gained is another confirmation that flared
nostrils do not win friends and influence people.



I'm in the same boat as you. I know little about Dennis or his
helicopter(s). I know little about his detractors here. However, just
from reading the diatribes that crop up here every two years, I
personally think that Dennis comes across at least as credible as his
detractors. Most seem to just foam at the mouth a lot and make
accusations that they can't back up when he calls their bluff. It tends
to be entertaining for about five posts and then is just stupid.


Matt


Wow to bad you can't ask the dead people what they think!!!! Do the
research on the accidents in the FAA accident data base. Read the
reports on how the engine was abused. don't expect other people to
do the research for you.
  #104  
Old December 6th 05, 03:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Jerry Springer wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

In article [email protected]_s71,
"C.D.Damron" wrote:


"Dennis Fetters" wrote in message
. com...

If you had some real-earth experience in what you were saying, then
you
would not be saying it.



You don't have to design and market a helicopter to understand that you
should probably design and test your product adequately before
selling it.
Call me old fashioned, but that is how I think it should be done,
especially
if lives are at stake.




Maybe you "should," but if that were the business model prevalent in
the real world today, Microsoft wouldn't be who they are. Imagine a
product or service that needs to be "patched' every three days or so
being successful in the market place. Utterly incomprehensible to Mac
users and other men of proper wit. Snake oil goes by a lot of
different monikers in different industries, but it isn't likely to be
pulled off the shelves any time soon. Caveat Emptor.

While I have the virtual floor, I'll add that I don't know anything
about Mr. Fetters or his products, but since neither he nor his
detractors seem able to discuss the issues like gentlemen, I put
little credence in anything said here on this topic. That's
unfortunate, because while I might have learned something interesting
if not useful, all I've gained is another confirmation that flared
nostrils do not win friends and influence people.




I'm in the same boat as you. I know little about Dennis or his
helicopter(s). I know little about his detractors here. However,
just from reading the diatribes that crop up here every two years, I
personally think that Dennis comes across at least as credible as his
detractors. Most seem to just foam at the mouth a lot and make
accusations that they can't back up when he calls their bluff. It
tends to be entertaining for about five posts and then is just stupid.


Matt



Wow to bad you can't ask the dead people what they think!!!! Do the
research on the accidents in the FAA accident data base. Read the
reports on how the engine was abused. don't expect other people to
do the research for you.


I have no need to as I have no interest in the mini-500. I just get
tired of the prolonged rants that occur here every year or two. Both
sides come across pretty poorly and I was simply observing that.

Matt
  #105  
Old December 6th 05, 03:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Matt, just FYI only, many of us actually lost good friends in that
machine (mini500). In my case Gil Armbruster, so for some of us it
hits close to home. I guess you wouldn't understand unless you were in
our shoes.

  #106  
Old December 6th 05, 03:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Matt Whiting wrote:

I have no need to as I have no interest in the mini-500. I just get
tired of the prolonged rants that occur here every year or two. Both
sides come across pretty poorly and I was simply observing that.


Dennis just needs to realize that his history here will never be
forgotten...

There is no need to *test the waters* nor defend himself, unless he's
prepared to relive the past over and over again and with the same outcome...

The only thing to silence the hostile crowd, would be to expire himself
in his own creation. Just make sure theres a video camera saving it for
posterity. If he doesn't have one, several here would probably offer
theirs...
  #107  
Old December 6th 05, 04:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

One more thing Matt, just count the number of people that is actually
one his side and are in here defending him and you'll get the idea of
who's right and who's wrong. One doesn't need a engineering degree to
see a bad design, the result speaks for itself i.e. One doesn't have to
be a good barber to see a bad haircut. BTW, he has invented supporters
in the past 'Planeman' being one of them, but he used the same computer
to post from and was caught right away.

  #108  
Old December 6th 05, 04:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Flyingmonk wrote:
Matt, just FYI only, many of us actually lost good friends in that
machine (mini500). In my case Gil Armbruster, so for some of us it
hits close to home. I guess you wouldn't understand unless you were in
our shoes.


I've lost friends also, but not in a helicopter. I understand the loss,
but what good does it do for your departed friend to keep beating a dead
horse in this ng?


Matt
  #109  
Old December 6th 05, 04:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Darrel Toepfer wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:

I have no need to as I have no interest in the mini-500. I just get
tired of the prolonged rants that occur here every year or two. Both
sides come across pretty poorly and I was simply observing that.



Dennis just needs to realize that his history here will never be
forgotten...


Every time that I can remember a thread like this starting, it was
because some yahoo in this group poked a jab at Fetters. I can't
remember a time that he initiated the "discussion."


Matt
  #110  
Old December 6th 05, 04:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Flyingmonk wrote:

One more thing Matt, just count the number of people that is actually
one his side and are in here defending him and you'll get the idea of
who's right and who's wrong. One doesn't need a engineering degree to
see a bad design, the result speaks for itself i.e. One doesn't have to
be a good barber to see a bad haircut. BTW, he has invented supporters
in the past 'Planeman' being one of them, but he used the same computer
to post from and was caught right away.


Right and wrong are hardly determined by numbers. I'm basing my
assessment on the quality of the postings here. My point was that
neither side is making a credible argument or showing any data that I'd
take to the bank, so why not just let it die? What does a mini-500
basher have to taunt Fetters into an argument every year or two? What
purpose does it serve?


Matt
 




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