JFK

In article md9tb.147048$mZ5.1005335@attbi_s54, "Michael 182"
wrote:

Sorry, I don't see any correlation between fidelity, infidelity, and
public
service.

In most courses/seminars about leadership, surveyed people
consistently believe that honesty, integrity, morality are highly
valued characteristics of the best leaders.

--
Bob Noel

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. com...
Well if repeated infidelity is not a problem with you,,, what about
abandoning a girlfriend to drown (one Kennedy) and murdering another woman
(still another, younger Kennedy). They just aren't an honorable bunch...

I would hate to be judged by the behavior of some of my relatives. If
you're going to hate me, hate me for my own actions, not those of someone
else.

By the way,,, think about that famous JFK quote... "Ask not what your
country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

Um. Wrong three-initial president. Try FDR.

Pete

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In most courses/seminars about leadership, surveyed people
consistently believe that honesty, integrity, morality are highly
valued characteristics of the best leaders.

That has no bearing on what actually *does* make the best leaders. It only
shows what people think makes the best leaders.

Pete

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
November 22 is Margy's birthday as well. I'm omit the year so as to not
incriminate
myself.

Incriminate yourself? Cradle robber?

No, I believe he got it right. From JFK's 1961 inaugural. FDR's most famous
line was "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. com...

By the way,,, think about that famous JFK quote... "Ask not what your
country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

Um. Wrong three-initial president. Try FDR.

Pete

In article , "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

In most courses/seminars about leadership, surveyed people
consistently believe that honesty, integrity, morality are highly
valued characteristics of the best leaders.

That has no bearing on what actually *does* make the best leaders. It
only
shows what people think makes the best leaders.


understood.

But I would love to discuss this with someone who thinks
that honesty, integrity, and moral are not important characteristics
of the best leaders. I am very interested in what characteristics
they think make the best leaders (which, of course, also wouldn't
have any bearing on what actually does make the best leaders...
now my head hurts.)

--
Bob Noel

Not only that, but many people are honest, have integrity, and believe in
morality and still have affairs. Many people would never stand up to the
scrutiny that they impose on others. The Republicans found that out during
the Clinton impeachment as Bob Livingston, Bob Barr, Dan Burton, Helen
Chenoweth all revealed they had affairs. Newt Gingrich was rumored to have
resigned under the same cloud.

The point is, all of these politicians, Republican and Democrat, are quite
likely honest people who will do a good job representing the people who
elected them. Once they started throwing stones, however, the glass houses
cumbled.

Once again, their marraiges, sex life or other personal issues are none of
our damn business.


"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In most courses/seminars about leadership, surveyed people
consistently believe that are honesty, integrity, morality highly
valued characteristics of the best leaders.

That has no bearing on what actually *does* make the best leaders. It
only
shows what people think makes the best leaders.

Pete

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
But I would love to discuss this with someone who thinks
that honesty, integrity, and moral are not important characteristics
of the best leaders.

First you need to define "best". Personally, I'd agree with you that I'd
like for my leaders to have those characteristics. However, IMHO societies
in general have a poor track record selecting leaders with those qualities,
and it could be argued that leaders without those qualities are capable of
serving those they lead better.

It depends a lot on what the leader is expected to do, and how they are
expected to do it.

Pete

Guess again....

From Pres John F. Kennedy's inaugural address delivered in 1961

I would hate to be judged by the behavior of some of my relatives. If
you're going to hate me, hate me for my own actions, not those of someone
else.

but jeez the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and I haven't even
addressed that other Kennedy who was the rapist..

The Kennedy's are/were rotten to the core. Wealthy to the point that they
didn't belive that the law was for them.

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com
"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. com...
Well if repeated infidelity is not a problem with you,,, what about
abandoning a girlfriend to drown (one Kennedy) and murdering another
woman
(still another, younger Kennedy). They just aren't an honorable
bunch...



By the way,,, think about that famous JFK quote... "Ask not what your
country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

Um. Wrong three-initial president. Try FDR.

Pete

Once again, their marriages, sex life or other personal issues are none of
our damn business.

Well evidently your viewpoint was also shared by the heads of the Catholic
church about their child-molesting priests. "Well, they do their 'job',,
we'll look the other way on our priest's 'personal interests' "

I'm done with this thread... We can simply agree that we disagree... bye
bye :-)

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com
"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:Eqatb.2325$Dw6.16807@attbi_s02...
Not only that, but many people are honest, have integrity, and believe in
morality and still have affairs. Many people would never stand up to the
scrutiny that they impose on others. The Republicans found that out during
the Clinton impeachment as Bob Livingston, Bob Barr, Dan Burton, Helen
Chenoweth all revealed they had affairs. Newt Gingrich was rumored to have
resigned under the same cloud.

The point is, all of these politicians, Republican and Democrat, are quite
likely honest people who will do a good job representing the people who
elected them. Once they started throwing stones, however, the glass houses
cumbled.




"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In most courses/seminars about leadership, surveyed people
consistently believe that are honesty, integrity, morality highly
valued characteristics of the best leaders.

That has no bearing on what actually *does* make the best leaders. It
only
shows what people think makes the best leaders.

Pete