A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

bouncing off the runway



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 26th 08, 04:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
E Z Peaces
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default bouncing off the runway

Yesterday I chatted with a retired man flying a model airplane. He said
he'd taken lessons in a plane with conventional gear in the 1950s. On
his third lesson, the instructor had him land. It was perfect.

After that, every time he landed he would bounce and float above the
runway. His instructor didn't know what caused it. A senior instructor
went up with him and observed that when he touched down, he didn't
continue to hold the stick back. That caused the tail to rise and the
plane to lift off.

That doesn't make sense to me. I've always understood that with
conventional gear, excess speed is the cause of bouncing and floating.
With the main wheels forward of the center of mass, your angle of attack
will increase when you touch down, and the plane will rise if you still
have flying speed.

If a pilot touches down too fast, I've understood that he needs to keep
the tail up and use the brakes without nosing over.

If the instructor had told him he was touching down too fast because he
wasn't holding the stick back far enough during descent, that would make
sense to me because a higher angle of attack induces more drag.

The man said the problem was that he had failed to keep the stick back
after touchdown. Does his recollection make sense?
  #2  
Old June 26th 08, 04:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
More_Flaps
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 217
Default bouncing off the runway

On Jun 26, 3:00*pm, E Z Peaces wrote:


The man said the problem was that he had failed to keep the stick back
after touchdown. *Does his recollection make sense?


Nope

Cheers
  #6  
Old June 26th 08, 08:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
E Z Peaces
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default bouncing off the runway

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote in
news:0390ffd1-a85e-4ae3-8971-
:

On Jun 26, 3:00 pm, E Z Peaces wrote:

The man said the problem was that he had failed to keep the stick
back after touchdown. Does his recollection make sense?
Nope


Does actually. Little tailfraggers, and big ones, come to think of
it, bounce along of you dont get the stick back after three pointing.
the mains will thrust it back up into the air a bit and then the nose
comes back down again repeating the cycle.



Bertie

Doesn't a three-point landing occur at stall speed?



Not always.


Isn't the plane
going too slowly to lift off again? Besides, if the tail is that low,
touching down won't increase the angle of attack, will it?


If the tail is that low, you have th estick all the way back.


The man said it was after touchdown that he'd quit holding the stick back.

You say the mains will thrust it back up into the air and the cycle
will repeat. In a three-point landing, it seems it would take springs
to make a plane rise. Aren't shock absorbers supposed to prevent
that?



Shock absorbers are for cars and they'r emade to dampen cycles such as
that.




Bertie


I've read about oleo aircraft struts at least as early as the 1920s.

Sorry about my multiple posts this morning. Each time I sent it, my
newsreader said the news server had not responded, so I'd try again.
  #7  
Old June 26th 08, 05:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert M. Gary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,767
Default bouncing off the runway

On Jun 26, 7:25*am, E Z Peaces wrote:

Doesn't a three-point landing occur at stall speed? *


That is one of the biggest myths in aviation. I've flown a lot of
taildraggers (GA) and few of them had the stall angle and the 3 pt
angle in alignment. As an example the Globe Swift stalls with the tail
about 2 feet off the ground while the Decathlon/Citabria stalls with
the tail on the ground and the mains still several feet in the air,
its very, very much still flying in the 3pt position. The hard part of
landing a Citabria is not to crush the mains after landing the tail.

-Robert, CFII
  #9  
Old June 26th 08, 07:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ol Shy & Bashful
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 222
Default bouncing off the runway

On Jun 26, 11:49*am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Jun 26, 7:25*am, E Z Peaces wrote:

Doesn't a three-point landing occur at stall speed? *


That is one of the biggest myths in aviation. I've flown a lot of
taildraggers (GA) and few of them had the stall angle and the 3 pt
angle in alignment. As an example the Globe Swift stalls with the tail
about 2 feet off the ground while the Decathlon/Citabria stalls with
the tail on the ground and the mains still several feet in the air,
its very, very much still flying in the 3pt position. The hard part of
landing a Citabria is not to crush the mains after landing the tail.

-Robert, CFII


Bull****!
  #10  
Old June 26th 08, 05:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert M. Gary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,767
Default bouncing off the runway

BTW: The tail can rise even after the wing is stalled.

-Robert
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Runway J.F. Aviation Photos 14 September 14th 07 04:24 PM
Runway ID Lakeview Bill Piloting 55 October 18th 05 12:53 AM
Runway needs of F4U and F-4 ???? vincent p. norris Naval Aviation 8 October 6th 05 07:18 PM
Bouncing ammeter hand on 76 Warrior Leo Owning 5 December 5th 04 09:24 PM
Runway in Use Sniper@SDU Simulators 11 October 8th 03 10:57 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.