controller killed

check this out, a ATC was possibly killed by a relative in a plane crash

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe...p?story=495147

It's a terribly sad story.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
check this out, a ATC was possibly killed by a relative in a plane crash

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe...p?story=495147

I am not moved. From the above article you all can see that the media
already sets themselves to blure the facts and start inventing a story where
the controller was not guilty from any wrongdoing. The recorded
conversations between the ATC and the aicraft involved in the accident
clearly show that the controller erroneously instructed the russian pilot to
change altitude and that's exactly the cause for the accident. IT WAS HIS
FAULT, HE IS A MURDERER. I doubt that the swiss court could have found him
guilty as charged though. After seeing that the swiss society will protect
their own, even if they have made a mistake, I can understand someone taking
the law into their own hands...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:k0n%b.24737$AL.460609@attbi_s03...
It's a terribly sad story.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
check this out, a ATC was possibly killed by a relative in a plane crash

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe...p?story=495147

angry wrote:

The recorded conversations between the ATC and the aicraft involved
in the accident clearly show that the controller erroneously
instructed the russian pilot to change altitude and that's exactly
the cause for the accident. IT WAS HIS FAULT, HE IS A MURDERER.

That's absurd. The controller's instruction was not an error on his
part. It was necessary to separate the aircraft and avoid a collision.
However, combined with other events, which he was unaware of, it did
result in the accident.

Murder is premeditated. He did not plan on killing anyone.

I doubt that the swiss court could have found him guilty as charged
though. After seeing that the swiss society will protect their own,
even if they have made a mistake, I can understand someone taking
the law into their own hands...

That is also absurd. The Germans are investigating the accident and
preparing the accident report, since the aircraft collided over their
territory. Therefore, you don't have to concern yourself with the Swiss
covering anything up. As far as taking the law into his own hands, there
is never an excuse for that.

angry wrote:

I am not moved. From the above article you all can see that the media
already sets themselves to blure the facts and start inventing a story where
the controller was not guilty from any wrongdoing. The recorded
conversations between the ATC and the aicraft involved in the accident
clearly show that the controller erroneously instructed the russian pilot to
change altitude and that's exactly the cause for the accident. IT WAS HIS
FAULT, HE IS A MURDERER.

He's not, ICAO DOC. 8168 Volume 1, Part VIII:

3.2 Use of ACAS indications
....
c) in the event of an RA, pilots shall:
1) respond immediately by following the RA as indicated, unless doing so
would jeopardize the safety of the aeroplane;
2) follow the RA even if there is a conflict between the RA and an air
traffic control (ATC) instruction to manoeuvre;
3) not manoeuvre in the opposite sense to an RA.

[end quote]

Now whoever carved him up - he is.


Dima

Hi,

The recorded conversations between the ATC and the aicraft involved
in the accident clearly show that the controller erroneously
instructed the russian pilot to change altitude and that's exactly
the cause for the accident. IT WAS HIS FAULT, HE IS A MURDERER.

Wrong. Why was the altitude change erroneously? Two planes, same FL,
collision course - what else is he supposed to do?

The tapes do show that the controller tried to separate the two planes
correctly - only he did it too late. A big part of the fault lies with the
Skyguide company (Swiss ATC). They allowed one controller to work a scope
alone, they shut down a collision alert feature for servicing AND they
simultaneously shut down a huge part of the phone system, also for
servicing. The controller had to work TWO scopes at that time (his fault: he
sent his colleague into the break) and was trying to contact a tower by
phone to advise him of incoming IFR traffic in one sector. In the other
sector, the two planes were approaching - unnoticed by the (not working)
collision alert feature and the controller. A German ATC guy saw the
conflict and tried to contact him by phone - the line was busy (see above
why).

The collision avoidance instruction was too late, but in itself correct. The
russian pilot was the one to add the final mistake: he did not follow his
TCAS RA, but the controllers instruction.

So, no, that's a lot of mistakes, but definately no murder.

Patrick

"angry" wrote in message
...
The recorded
conversations between the ATC and the aicraft involved in the accident
clearly show that the controller erroneously instructed the russian pilot
to
change altitude and that's exactly the cause for the accident. IT WAS HIS
FAULT, HE IS A MURDERER.

"Angry" and "nuts"...try learning simple defintions before shooting your
mouth off.



I doubt that the swiss court could have found him
guilty as charged though. After seeing that the swiss society will protect
their own, even if they have made a mistake, I can understand someone
taking
the law into their own hands...

You're sicker than either these two characters.

And unfortunately the Russian crew didn't study this requirement well
enough, or hadn't been trained adequately in regard to this
requirement. The Russina First Officer pointed out that the RA said
climb more than once to the Captain. The whole concept of Crew
Management Resource training was intended to teach crews to work
together better, and to keep the Captain from making the First Officer
irrelevant in an emergency.

Dima Volodin wrote in message ...
angry wrote:

I am not moved. From the above article you all can see that the media
already sets themselves to blure the facts and start inventing a story where
the controller was not guilty from any wrongdoing. The recorded
conversations between the ATC and the aicraft involved in the accident
clearly show that the controller erroneously instructed the russian pilot to
change altitude and that's exactly the cause for the accident. IT WAS HIS
FAULT, HE IS A MURDERER.

He's not, ICAO DOC. 8168 Volume 1, Part VIII:

3.2 Use of ACAS indications
...
c) in the event of an RA, pilots shall:
1) respond immediately by following the RA as indicated, unless doing so
would jeopardize the safety of the aeroplane;
2) follow the RA even if there is a conflict between the RA and an air
traffic control (ATC) instruction to manoeuvre;
3) not manoeuvre in the opposite sense to an RA.

[end quote]

Now whoever carved him up - he is.


Dima

Yes, that's what I ment - the ATC put unnesesary pressure to the poor pilot.
By playing the "authority" too much, he forced the pilot into taking his
advice as one that is overriding, so the russian pilot flew into the other
aircraft - this is why I call the ATC murderer. If the russian pilot had
made a mistake, be it because of CRM issues or other, I could have said that
he is a fool - but he is not. That's sad!

"Dima Volodin" wrote in message
...
angry wrote:

I am not moved. From the above article you all can see that the media
already sets themselves to blure the facts and start inventing a story
where
the controller was not guilty from any wrongdoing. The recorded
conversations between the ATC and the aicraft involved in the accident
clearly show that the controller erroneously instructed the russian
pilot to
change altitude and that's exactly the cause for the accident. IT WAS
HIS
FAULT, HE IS A MURDERER.

He's not, ICAO DOC. 8168 Volume 1, Part VIII:

3.2 Use of ACAS indications
...
c) in the event of an RA, pilots shall:
1) respond immediately by following the RA as indicated, unless doing so
would jeopardize the safety of the aeroplane;
2) follow the RA even if there is a conflict between the RA and an air
traffic control (ATC) instruction to manoeuvre;
3) not manoeuvre in the opposite sense to an RA.

[end quote]

Now whoever carved him up - he is.


Dima

Absurd is to see people like you believe in the newspaper stories.
The ATC did made a mistake by choosing wrong altitude to advice as so to
avoid the collision. You are saying that he was unaware of the other
aicraft - that's absurd - he was the only one on duty and he had ALL the
aicraft in his vicinity, their course, and their altitude displayed for him
to make a decision. He made the wrong one. He further in a tone not allowing
any questioning instructed the russian pilot to obey him and ignore the
onboard TCAS instructions. The poor pilot did (contrary to what he should
have done) and a lot of people died as a result. That's because of the ATC's
mistake and attitude.
Did you get it this time?

"James Robinson" wrote in message
...
angry wrote:

The recorded conversations between the ATC and the aicraft involved
in the accident clearly show that the controller erroneously
instructed the russian pilot to change altitude and that's exactly
the cause for the accident. IT WAS HIS FAULT, HE IS A MURDERER.

That's absurd. The controller's instruction was not an error on his
part. It was necessary to separate the aircraft and avoid a collision.
However, combined with other events, which he was unaware of, it did
result in the accident.

Murder is premeditated. He did not plan on killing anyone.

I doubt that the swiss court could have found him guilty as charged
though. After seeing that the swiss society will protect their own,
even if they have made a mistake, I can understand someone taking
the law into their own hands...

That is also absurd. The Germans are investigating the accident and
preparing the accident report, since the aircraft collided over their
territory. Therefore, you don't have to concern yourself with the Swiss
covering anything up. As far as taking the law into his own hands, there
is never an excuse for that.