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What was controller implying??



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 29th 04, 11:58 PM
Bill J
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Posts: n/a
Default What was controller implying??

Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??"

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem. The traffic
was not heavy. I have never had anyone question a change like that. When
over the airport VMC opened up briefly, I cancelled and landed.
Wondering what might have caused the query.

  #2  
Old August 30th 04, 12:24 AM
Roy Smith
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Default

Bill J wrote:
Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination.


Good move. The combination of convective activity, deteriorating
weather, and an unsure fuel situation is not fun. But you knew that :-)

I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??


It's bizarre that he should even ask this, but don't let it get to you.
The only thing I can think of is he suspects you're in some kind of
trouble and is trying to figure out if he should handle you as an
emergency. Tell him something that'll make him happy, and get on with
flying the airplane. Tell him you're diverting due to weather. Declare
minimum fuel if you think it'll make a difference. If he's not taking
the hint, just tell him straight out what you need, "Request clearance
to Podunk Municipal and vectors to the ILS". If he's still not taking
the hint, request immediate clearance.

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem.


OK, so you caused him a problem. Bummer. He can go home after his
shift and bitch at his wife about the bad day he had at the office. Not
your problem. Your problem is to get some more fuel, and unless you're
flying something a lot fancier than most of us, that means landing at an
airport.
  #3  
Old August 30th 04, 12:31 AM
Newps
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Default



Bill J wrote:
Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for
sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??"


And you answer "Because."




From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem.


No problem, just unexpected.


  #4  
Old August 30th 04, 12:38 AM
Bob Gardner
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Default

Never parse a controller's transmissions in an attempt to analyze his or her
intentions. I don't know how you phrased your transmission regarding the
change in destination, but my guess is that it did not contain enough
information. Controllers have to abide by phraseology in the Air Traffic
Control Handbook...pilots have no similar guidance. Say what you have to say
and say it clearly, and I'll bet this never happens again.

Bob Gardner

"Bill J" wrote in message
...
Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for

sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??"

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem. The traffic
was not heavy. I have never had anyone question a change like that. When
over the airport VMC opened up briefly, I cancelled and landed.
Wondering what might have caused the query.



  #5  
Old August 30th 04, 01:16 AM
Andrew Sarangan
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Posts: n/a
Default

Bill J wrote in
:

Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles
futher west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have
to reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home
for sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I
wanted to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I
was needing to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5
miles out, and way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me
with "I need to know what is the reason for the change in
destination??"

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem. The
traffic
was not heavy. I have never had anyone question a change like that.
When over the airport VMC opened up briefly, I cancelled and landed.
Wondering what might have caused the query.


I suspect you were too close to the airport for vectoring or there might
have been a traffic conflict. On my initial request to the controller, I
would have said "request landing at XYZ due to weather".
  #6  
Old August 30th 04, 01:28 AM
nobody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've had this happen to me a couple of times over the last couple of
months - the
controller querying me as to why a change in destination. I'm wondering if
there
is a new requirement placed on the controllers because of "security". Any
controllers
here that would care to comment?


"Bill J" wrote in message
...
Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for

sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??"

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem. The traffic
was not heavy. I have never had anyone question a change like that. When
over the airport VMC opened up briefly, I cancelled and landed.
Wondering what might have caused the query.



  #7  
Old August 30th 04, 01:56 AM
Bob Gardner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nothing new in the ATCH.

Bob Gardner

"nobody" wrote in message
om...
I've had this happen to me a couple of times over the last couple of
months - the
controller querying me as to why a change in destination. I'm wondering

if
there
is a new requirement placed on the controllers because of "security". Any
controllers
here that would care to comment?


"Bill J" wrote in message
...
Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles futher
west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have to
reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home for

sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I wanted
to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I was needing
to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5 miles out, and
way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me with "I need to know
what is the reason for the change in destination??"

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem. The traffic
was not heavy. I have never had anyone question a change like that. When
over the airport VMC opened up briefly, I cancelled and landed.
Wondering what might have caused the query.





  #8  
Old August 30th 04, 02:16 AM
Michael 182
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"nobody" wrote in message
om...
I've had this happen to me a couple of times over the last couple of
months - the
controller querying me as to why a change in destination. I'm wondering

if
there
is a new requirement placed on the controllers because of "security". Any
controllers
here that would care to comment?


I've had it happen on every IFR flight on which I've changed destination
during flight since 9/11. That's about six times. (headwinds, kids bathroom
break, weather.) One controller told me it is a security requirement.

Michael



  #9  
Old August 30th 04, 04:02 AM
Bob Gardner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A search of the ATCH for "destination" returns 72 hits. None of them has
anything to do with a civil pilot's request for a change of destination
(there is some guidance for military flights). Maybe Steve or Newps knows of
some other source of guidance for controllers that supplements/overrides the
ATCH.

Bob Gardner

"Michael 182" wrote in message
newsdvYc.252$_g7.162@attbi_s52...

"nobody" wrote in message
om...
I've had this happen to me a couple of times over the last couple of
months - the
controller querying me as to why a change in destination. I'm wondering

if
there
is a new requirement placed on the controllers because of "security".

Any
controllers
here that would care to comment?


I've had it happen on every IFR flight on which I've changed destination
during flight since 9/11. That's about six times. (headwinds, kids

bathroom
break, weather.) One controller told me it is a security requirement.

Michael





  #10  
Old August 30th 04, 04:19 AM
Michelle P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill,
Standard question. I have changed my destination several times on IFR
flight plans and have always been asked. The concern usually seems to be
they want to know if I need assistance. They were concerned an
urgent/emergency situation is developing. A simple reply "weather" would
surfice.

Once I had and "Emergency" in IFR. I lost my alternator in IMC over West
Virginia. I relayed this info to the controller and everyone on the
frequency starting telling me a specific airport to go to. This airport
happened to be close to my route and ahead. I requested a new
destination and was granted. Within 10 minutes the frequency was very
quiet. So quiet I became concerned I had lost my comm radio. I called
the controller and he re-assured me he was still there and that he had
passed off everyone else to another controller and frequency. I landed
safely. Another time I merely had to pee so bad I had a hard time
thinking strait. :-} The controller got a good laugh from that one.
Michelle

Bill J wrote:

Yesterday I was on an IFR flight about 50 miles from destination. The
area was getting covered with TS, including my alternate 20 miles
futher west. Home base was 150 mi to the east. I realized I might have
to reverse course to escape, but did not have enough fuel to get home
for sure.

So, the last chance to land before the TS got heavy was coming close.
When about 15 miles from this new "alternate" I told controller I
wanted to change destination. I expect a vector to the final, and I
was needing to start descent. Nothing happened. Finally when maybe 5
miles out, and way to close to get a vector, controller quizzed me
with "I need to know what is the reason for the change in destination??"

From the tone of voice I could tell I caused him a problem. The
traffic was not heavy. I have never had anyone question a change like
that. When over the airport VMC opened up briefly, I cancelled and
landed. Wondering what might have caused the query.


--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

 




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