Imperial War Museum Duxford

"Mycroft" wrote in message
...
I am going to visit Duxford in about 2 weeks is there anything there
people
would advise me to see or would like me to photograph to post for them too
see?

Myc


Dont miss the Land Warfare hall, its a little way past the
main cluster of building but worth the visit.

Keith

Keith Willshaw wrote:
"Mycroft" wrote in message
...

I am going to visit Duxford in about 2 weeks is there anything there

people

would advise me to see or would like me to photograph to post for them too
see?

Myc



Dont miss the Land Warfare hall, its a little way past the
main cluster of building but worth the visit.

Keith


The new hangar (sorry, I can't remember what it's called) is excellent.
B52, F111 etc etc


Look out for the V1 launch ramp outside!

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
news
Keith Willshaw wrote:


The new hangar (sorry, I can't remember what it's called) is excellent.
B52, F111 etc etc


That's the American air museum.



Look out for the V1 launch ramp outside!


And the 9.2" Gun

Keith

Also look out for TSR2, a big white jet, theres quite a story about that
jet, although its painted with xr219, its actually probably xr221.
Xr 219 was the only one that flew, xr220 was about to fly but didnt because
the project was cancelled the evening before, and was hence grounded, she is
in R.A.F. Cosford i believe. the only other one would have been xr221 which
was the next one in line on the production line.
Xr 219 was towed to essex where she was shot at by other aircraft, "to see
what the effects of bullets hitting her were", and was then scrapped.
The competetiors were the American general Dynamics F111, which was
cancelled as an order from U.S., the australians bought it and had years of
development problems with it until it eventually cost in the region of
£229.000.000.000 or so, T.S.R. 2 cost 195million up to point of
cancellation.
Lord Mountbatten wanted the Blackburn Buccaneer, as a strike aircraft, and
so the buccaneer was ordered in U.K.
Its an interesting story.



"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
news
Keith Willshaw wrote:


The new hangar (sorry, I can't remember what it's called) is excellent.
B52, F111 etc etc


That's the American air museum.



Look out for the V1 launch ramp outside!


And the 9.2" Gun

Keith

M. H. Greaves wrote:
Also look out for TSR2, a big white jet, theres quite a story about that
jet, although its painted with xr219, its actually probably xr221.
Xr 219 was the only one that flew, xr220 was about to fly but didnt because
the project was cancelled the evening before, and was hence grounded, she is
in R.A.F. Cosford i believe. the only other one would have been xr221 which
was the next one in line on the production line.
Xr 219 was towed to essex where she was shot at by other aircraft, "to see
what the effects of bullets hitting her were", and was then scrapped.
The competetiors were the American general Dynamics F111, which was
cancelled as an order from U.S., the australians bought it and had years of
development problems with it until it eventually cost in the region of
£229.000.000.000 or so, T.S.R. 2 cost 195million up to point of
cancellation.
Lord Mountbatten wanted the Blackburn Buccaneer, as a strike aircraft, and
so the buccaneer was ordered in U.K.
Its an interesting story.


And a beautiful plane. It could (almost) still be flying now if it had
been built in quantity. Years ahead of its time.


"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
news
Keith Willshaw wrote:

The new hangar (sorry, I can't remember what it's called) is excellent.
B52, F111 etc etc


That's the American air museum.


That's it! Built in, what, about 2001? I've only been once but it was
amazing.

John

absolutely!
i DID have the video, but it got chewed in the VCR, very good.
It was cancelled because of political procrastination (no i havent swallowed
the dictionary!! lol), by a new labour government.
I think its very hard to actually point a finger of blame at an individual,
because they were all involved, but no one will admit to being the axeman.
Our local library has a book called TSR 2, it also has one called the murder
of TSR 2, its not in general circulation for rent; it has to be requested in
advance.
I had a vacform kit 1:72 scale, until recently, when i sold my entire
collection to some one in boston lincolnshire; it took me a year to build
the thing! because i wanted it right in every possible way, so i researched
it thoroughly.
Incidentaly, the F111 programme sold to Australia was 10 years late in
delivery because of technical and development problems. It cost £220 billion
up to then.
but lord mount batten would go around trying to sell the buccaneer, saying
that you could buy 3 bucc's to 1 TSR 2, ultimately he got his way, tha RAF
didnt want the buccaneer, so they bought the F4 Phantom from USA, and
altered it to take the rolls royce spey afterburner engines.
Like i say its quite a story.
regards, Mark.

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
M. H. Greaves wrote:
Also look out for TSR2, a big white jet, theres quite a story about that
jet, although its painted with xr219, its actually probably xr221.
Xr 219 was the only one that flew, xr220 was about to fly but didnt
because
the project was cancelled the evening before, and was hence grounded,
she is
in R.A.F. Cosford i believe. the only other one would have been xr221
which
was the next one in line on the production line.
Xr 219 was towed to essex where she was shot at by other aircraft, "to
see
what the effects of bullets hitting her were", and was then scrapped.
The competetiors were the American general Dynamics F111, which was
cancelled as an order from U.S., the australians bought it and had years
of
development problems with it until it eventually cost in the region of
£229.000.000.000 or so, T.S.R. 2 cost 195million up to point of
cancellation.
Lord Mountbatten wanted the Blackburn Buccaneer, as a strike aircraft,
and
so the buccaneer was ordered in U.K.
Its an interesting story.


And a beautiful plane. It could (almost) still be flying now if it had
been built in quantity. Years ahead of its time.


"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
news
Keith Willshaw wrote:

The new hangar (sorry, I can't remember what it's called) is excellent.
B52, F111 etc etc


That's the American air museum.


That's it! Built in, what, about 2001? I've only been once but it was
amazing.

John

A good TSR-2 potted history site can be found on Damien Burke's "Thunder
and Lightnings" site:

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...2/history.html

I think that TSR-2 was cancelled by an aircraft-industry-hating Labour
government, who really wanted to cancel Concorde, but discovered that
the penalty clauses were too punative. Though they repeatedly denied
it, I'm convinced that Jenkins and Healey were the prime movers. The
spite and malice attending the cancellation still make me angry (jigs
and tooling destroyed, documentation and even photographs burned). This
all points to the political nature of the cancellation. They might as
well have sown the Warton airfield with salt.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 02:12:04 +0000, Alan Dicey
wrote:


A good TSR-2 potted history site can be found on Damien Burke's "Thunder
and Lightnings" site:

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...2/history.html

I think that TSR-2 was cancelled by an aircraft-industry-hating Labour
government,

Considering the person who ultimately authorised it also happened to be
head of the board of trade when RR Nenes and Derwents were swapped for
russian timber freely available in the Sterling zone. One could ascribe
motives a lot more sinister than just hating the aircraft industry.



greg
--
You do a lot less thundering in the pulpit against the Harlot
after she marches right down the aisle and kicks you in the nuts.

Yes i absolutely agree!
Labour gov't wanted the aircraft ind' to build aircraft that were already
established, but did not want the industry to "go breaching the realms of
science". At least thats what Jenkins says on the video, really labour has
done irreversible damage to britians aircraft industry, we no longer make
them here on our own, they have to be in collaboration with another nation,
look at the tornado for example.
All of the uk's people went to USA after the TSR 2 fiasco.
Thanks for the link
regards, mark.
"Alan Dicey" wrote in message
...

A good TSR-2 potted history site can be found on Damien Burke's "Thunder
and Lightnings" site:

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...2/history.html

I think that TSR-2 was cancelled by an aircraft-industry-hating Labour
government, who really wanted to cancel Concorde, but discovered that
the penalty clauses were too punative. Though they repeatedly denied
it, I'm convinced that Jenkins and Healey were the prime movers. The
spite and malice attending the cancellation still make me angry (jigs
and tooling destroyed, documentation and even photographs burned). This
all points to the political nature of the cancellation. They might as
well have sown the Warton airfield with salt.

In article , M. H.
Greaves writes
Yes i absolutely agree!
Labour gov't wanted the aircraft ind' to build aircraft that were already
established, but did not want the industry to "go breaching the realms of
science". At least thats what Jenkins says on the video, really labour has
done irreversible damage to britians aircraft industry, we no longer make
them here on our own, they have to be in collaboration with another nation,
look at the tornado for example.
All of the uk's people went to USA after the TSR 2 fiasco.
Thanks for the link
regards, mark.

"Alan Dicey" wrote in message
...

A good TSR-2 potted history site can be found on Damien Burke's "Thunder
and Lightnings" site:

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...2/history.html

I think that TSR-2 was cancelled by an aircraft-industry-hating Labour
government, who really wanted to cancel Concorde, but discovered that
the penalty clauses were too punative. Though they repeatedly denied
it, I'm convinced that Jenkins and Healey were the prime movers. The
spite and malice attending the cancellation still make me angry (jigs
and tooling destroyed, documentation and even photographs burned). This
all points to the political nature of the cancellation. They might as
well have sown the Warton airfield with salt.




There were paeans of praise for Roy Jenkins when he died, but all I
could think of was "You were one of the *******s who killed the most
advanced aircraft of its day". As Mark says, Jenkins, Healey and all
couldn't understand why the industry had to build something new instead
of existing designs. The fundamental problem was that the government of
the time was made up of academics who mostly had no conception of the
real world of industry. What good is a degree in English Literature or
the Classics when you have to decide on the merits of a supersonic
bomber?

The present lot are just as bad - lawyers and socialist academics - the
only one who has ever worn a uniform is Fatty "Two Jags" Prescott, and
that was as a ship's steward in the Merchant Navy.

There appears to be a snobbish mindset at the heart of British society
that considers anything to do with engineering to be dirty and
undignified, and manufacturing to be vulgar. The City is interested only
in short-term profit, and doesn't seem capable of investing in the
creativity and skill of inventors and engineers in the UK.

\rant
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!