Wingtip Vortex: Heavy, Clean, Slow - Why?

"steve.t" wrote in message
oups.com...
Is this why there are fences on wings? [I am assuming that the over
sized chord shaped flat metal blade on a wing is a fence]. That is to
keep the air flow straighter than it would otherwise flow?

And speaking of winglets, would a winglet provide sufficient efficiency
increase for piston singles to make it worth the cost of the
modification (field approval or STC)?

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument


Without getting into a bunch of searching for proof, what I recall reading
is that winglets can be thought of as more wing, to keep the vortices from
coming off the wing tip. Vortices still come off the winglet. Some of the
energy is reclaimed by making the vortices from the winglet flow over the
airfoil, adding lift. Angle and size are important, as being slightly wrong
can soon destroy any gains.

They are most efficient at speeds above what piston singles can attain.
Fences and other trick wing tips (drooped, angled) are better at low speeds.
You are better off adding more wingspan to increase the aspect ratio, at our
size.

Airliners can't simply add more wing length, and still fit in the gates and
hangars, and keep the spars strong enough, so they put on the winglets.

I'm sure that some of this is not quite right, but I think the general
concepts are correct.
--
Jim in NC

Jim:

I've noticed and have flown C-15x with the exagerated wing tip (folded
down) and I've not really noticed any improvement at low speed (which
is what I think it is for, better handling at low speed for approach).

What I am interested in is increased lift, and better performance (in
terms of fuel usage) which is what the winglets do for the B-747
(something like 30% improvement in fuel economy! if memory serves me
correctly).

So if we could obtain the equivalent above 6000' MSL without wrecking
the approach speed performance, I was wondering if it would be worth
it. Particularly when looking at US$3/gal for 100LL.

In my case, with speed mods for wheel pants, wing tips, rudder and flap
gap seals, I get 1 Gal/hr better than the POH calls for with a fully
run out engine (I've just had it overhauled and don't have current
figures). What that means is, at 70% power, POH calls for 9.3 GPH at
6000' MSL (STD day). I get 8-8.3 GPH and 4-7 Knots better speed and a
lower actual stall speed. This was rather expensive to do (all the STCs
cost more than I would get back even flying 100+ hours/yr -- thankfully
the plane already had them when I bought it). And I do not do aggresive
leaning (I only lean until I start to get an engine drop of any RPM and
then enrich 1.5 turns).

But if a single mod could take advantage of the vortice energy to
recover 30% at cruise, that might make it worth doing. Particularly if
it added to climb rates (which I also see with all the STCs I currently
have).

Regards,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

"steve.t" wrote in message oups.com...
Jim:

I've noticed and have flown C-15x with the exagerated wing tip (folded
down) and I've not really noticed any improvement at low speed (which
is what I think it is for, better handling at low speed for approach).

What I am interested in is increased lift, and better performance (in
terms of fuel usage) which is what the winglets do for the B-747
(something like 30% improvement in fuel economy! if memory serves me
correctly).


Oh, no, not 30%! If that were true then every plane would have them.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737...ets/wing2.html

"steve.t" wrote

Jim:

I've noticed and have flown C-15x with the exagerated wing tip (folded
down) and I've not really noticed any improvement at low speed (which
is what I think it is for, better handling at low speed for approach).

The fact that all small planes do not have that type of wingtip, is a
testamony to what little benefit they must provide. If they were
noticeable, by simple observation, everyone would be using them. I have no
doubt that they have a measureable gain in slow speed performance, when
measured in a wind tunnel, but enough for you to notice on the
plane?....Gimmic?... They do look cool. g


What I am interested in is increased lift, and better performance (in
terms of fuel usage) which is what the winglets do for the B-747
(something like 30% improvement in fuel economy! if memory serves me
correctly).

30% seems a little, or a lot high, from my memory.

Longer wingspan, high aspect ratio wings are almost always more efficient.
Look at sailplanes. That is the primary way winglets improve efficiency.
Also, remember my comment about them being better at higher speeds than
where we operate piston singles, or even piston twins.

So if we could obtain the equivalent above 6000' MSL without wrecking
the approach speed performance, I was wondering if it would be worth
it. Particularly when looking at US$3/gal for 100LL.

Unlikely. See above.

But if a single mod could take advantage of the vortice energy to
recover 30% at cruise, that might make it worth doing. Particularly if
it added to climb rates (which I also see with all the STCs I currently
have).

Climb rates are at slower speeds, so even less gain than cruise.

I am far from an expert on all things aerodynamic; I just read all I can.
My take on winglets for small planes is like the argument I made on the
drooped tips, earlier. If they were significant for use in small planes,
everyone would be using them. Are all of the major manufactures of light
planes using them? Nope. Wrong tree. (you're barking up) ;-)
--
Jim in NC

Jim and Steve,

Winglets work by 'flying' in the tip vortex; they are placed on the
wing with a slight 'toe out' such that their lift vector is inward and
slightly forward. They fly with a posivitve AOA at this toe out angle
because their local relative wind is the top (inward rotating) part of
the tip vortex. The forward component of their lift vector shows up as
a reduction of induced drag.

Winglets are effective only on aircraft that cruise at or near the
stall speed, where the vortex is large. This is true on most bizjets
and transport type jets; while their true airspeed is very high, their
indicated airspeed is nearly down to the stall. Most of these types of
aircraft cruise in this little 'corner' of the envelope, just above the
stall speed and just below the limiting Mach numer. A little slower
and you stall, a little faster and you get into bad Mach effects
(buffeting or Mach tuck.) It is commonly called the coffin corner.

Winglets are effective on these planes not because they are flying
fast, but rather because (in indicated airspeed) they are flying slow
(close to the stall). The low IAS means they fly at a high AOA (nearly
stalled) and create strong vortices for the winglets to fly in.

Winglets are typically of no or even negative value on light aircraft
because our cruise speed is typically about twice the stall speed.
This means we cruise with a much lower AOA, and therefore create much
weaker wingtip vorticies. Without the strong vortex, there is little
rotating flow for the winglet to fly in, and it just adds parasite
drag.

The voyager had winglets (until Dick scraped them off) because that
aircraft was designed to fly at the airspeed of maximum range, which
was near enough to the stall speed to make the winglets effective.
That the aircraft made it around the world without them attests to the
fact that the induced drag reduction is incremental (a few percent.)
Regards,

Gene

wrote in message
ups.com...
Jim and Steve,

Winglets are effective only on aircraft that cruise at or near the
stall speed, where the vortex is large. This is true on most bizjets
and transport type jets; while their true airspeed is very high, their
indicated airspeed is nearly down to the stall.

Thanks. Of course; one part I forgot.
--
Jim in NC

As I remember hearing Burt talk a long time ago, they needed a vent for the
tanks that wouldn't vent
fuel before/during launch. The wings sagged a lot. Running a vent inboard
has a different set of
problems when the wing is bending up a lot. The winglets were a way to get
the vent higher and
do it without losing much efficiency. The aircraft was not a span limited
design - ie it didn't have
to taxi up to a gate and it wasn't limited by rules on setting the record. I
don't think they were
influenced by any marketing/sales group. Ergo - the usual reasons for
winglets weren't really in play.
Grinding on them on launch was not part of the plan.

wrote in message
. com...
Jim and Steve,

Winglets work by 'flying' in the tip vortex; they are placed on the
wing with a slight 'toe out' such that their lift vector is inward and
slightly forward. They fly with a posivitve AOA at this toe out angle
because their local relative wind is the top (inward rotating) part of
the tip vortex. The forward component of their lift vector shows up as
a reduction of induced drag.

Winglets are effective only on aircraft that cruise at or near the
stall speed, where the vortex is large. This is true on most bizjets
and transport type jets; while their true airspeed is very high, their
indicated airspeed is nearly down to the stall. Most of these types of
aircraft cruise in this little 'corner' of the envelope, just above the
stall speed and just below the limiting Mach numer. A little slower
and you stall, a little faster and you get into bad Mach effects
(buffeting or Mach tuck.) It is commonly called the coffin corner.

Winglets are effective on these planes not because they are flying
fast, but rather because (in indicated airspeed) they are flying slow
(close to the stall). The low IAS means they fly at a high AOA (nearly
stalled) and create strong vortices for the winglets to fly in.

Winglets are typically of no or even negative value on light aircraft
because our cruise speed is typically about twice the stall speed.
This means we cruise with a much lower AOA, and therefore create much
weaker wingtip vorticies. Without the strong vortex, there is little
rotating flow for the winglet to fly in, and it just adds parasite
drag.

The voyager had winglets (until Dick scraped them off) because that
aircraft was designed to fly at the airspeed of maximum range, which
was near enough to the stall speed to make the winglets effective.
That the aircraft made it around the world without them attests to the
fact that the induced drag reduction is incremental (a few percent.)
Regards,

Gene