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#11
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motorgliders as towplanes
On Mar 8, 1:03*pm, Brad wrote:
I know this has come up before in RAS. But thought I would bring up the subject again. For a club looking at long term projections, which at some point will include either sticking a "new" engine on a Pawnee or getting rid of it, does it make sense to start evaluating getting a 2 place motorglider to serve as a tug and also as a touring/training tool? Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL, from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to tow the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow behind the clubs remaining pawnee? We are blessed with 3 towplanes in our club, there are upcoming factors that will/are causing us to look at several different scenarios and am wondering if tossing a MG into the mix might be one such solution. Brad Brad, Assuming we are talking about towing with MG in the US; can you get insurance to do this? Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, NC, USA |
#12
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motorgliders as towplanes
Hi Craig.
I landed out at Sackville Farm in the 15s last year and was ear bashed for about an hour by Tim on how good the Grob109T was for towing. Unfortunately he was not able to give me a tow out as the undercarriage had been damaged and it was in repair. I think you need a very good surface to operate off and that the Grob (and probably similar SLMGs) are too lightly built for anything more than occasional tugging. At BGC our tugs do c. 2000 cycles p.a. each. I doubt that a MG would stay that pace. Jim At 18:00 08 March 2009, Craig Lowrie wrote: |
#13
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motorgliders as towplanes
On 8 Mar, 17:03, Brad wrote:
Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL, from a 1800' grass strip? Mendip GC in the UK tows two seaters very successfully witha Rotax Falke. As Andreas Maurer writes, initial acceleration is a little low (a little? I damn nearly wet myself as the upwind wall approached) but the climb feels like anything else. Ian |
#14
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motorgliders as towplanes
On 9 Mar 2009 08:30:04 GMT, Jim White wrote:
I think you need a very good surface to operate off and that the Grob (and probably similar SLMGs) are too lightly built for anything more than occasional tugging. Their strength is completely sufficient for towing all dyearlong - lots of clubs in Germany are using motorgliders as their primary tug plane. The only problem is that they usually need a long grass or a paved runway to be safe. At BGC our tugs do c. 2000 cycles p.a. each. I doubt that a MG would stay that pace. No problem at all for a motorglider. |
#15
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motorgliders as towplanes
On Mar 8, 1:03*pm, Brad wrote:
Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL, from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to tow the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow behind the clubs remaining pawnee? Brad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UYPyNgf4Q4 Lambada motorglider towing UFM 13 Rotax 912 100hp |
#16
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motorgliders as towplanes
On Mar 9, 9:14*am, wrote:
On Mar 8, 1:03*pm, Brad wrote: Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL, from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to tow the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow behind the clubs remaining pawnee? Brad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UYPyNgf4Q4 Lambada motorglider towing UFM 13 Rotax 912 100hp I watched a Lambada tow an LS-3 from Boulder (elev 5300) on a hot day and it looked about the same as the SSB 180HP Supercub. The LS-3 pilot reported the same. I can't speak to the maintainability of the Lambada but keep in mind that the Pawnee isn't sterling in that department either. |
#17
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motorgliders as towplanes
In message , Jim White
writes Hi Craig. I landed out at Sackville Farm in the 15s last year and was ear bashed for about an hour by Tim on how good the Grob109T was for towing. Unfortunately he was not able to give me a tow out as the undercarriage had been damaged and it was in repair. I think you need a very good surface to operate off and that the Grob (and probably similar SLMGs) are too lightly built for anything more than occasional tugging. I also landed there last year and got a ride with Tim in his Grob. He also did a tow for another arrival from Shennington who wasn't feeling too euphoric to fly back. Apparently the same one visited my own club the previous year to demonstrate how good it was a towing, and they gave it our heaviest two-seater with one of our heaviest crew combos, and it got them off the ground. I believe our aerotow strip is just shy of 800m, and it rises slightly at the end they took off towards. So far as I know the Grob performed admirably. At BGC our tugs do c. 2000 cycles p.a. each. I doubt that a MG would stay that pace. -- Surfer! Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net |
#19
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motorgliders as towplanes
I have some experience of aerotowing behind motorgliders, most Motorfalkes
and Grob 109s. They are alright, but struggle a bit with two-seaters. There have been times when I have beem towed so slowly (about 50knots is a K13, two-up) that the glider felt as if it was on the point of stalling! Remember that a glider has to produce more lift when climbing. I believe that engine cooling is often a problem, and that M/Gs are less tolerant to the glider getting out of position. At my club we are expressly forbidden to low tow, or to carry out training exercises such as 'boxing the tow' when M/Gs are being used. Sorry but give me a 235hp Pawnee (or a winch launch) anytime! Derek C At 15:30 09 March 2009, bildan wrote: On Mar 9, 9:14=A0am, wrote: On Mar 8, 1:03=A0pm, Brad wrote: Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL, from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to tow the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow behind the clubs remaining pawnee? Brad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D5UYPyNgf4Q4 Lambada motorglider towing UFM 13 Rotax 912 100hp I watched a Lambada tow an LS-3 from Boulder (elev 5300) on a hot day and it looked about the same as the SSB 180HP Supercub. The LS-3 pilot reported the same. I can't speak to the maintainability of the Lambada but keep in mind that the Pawnee isn't sterling in that department either. |
#20
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motorgliders as towplanes
I observed a 100HP Lambada equipped with 13m wings being used as a
towplane in the 2000 Worlds in South Africa. It seemed to perform very well despite the moderate density altitude. They were launching from an asphalt runway and the ground acceleration was slower than most other towplanes, but once airborne no difference was notable. The Lambada and similar modern motorgliders are very light (300kg) - nearly half the weight of the older designs, such as the Grob 109 - and perform very well. I have flown a Grob 109 and it had enough trouble getting itself into the air. The Lambada also handles a lot better than the older heavy beasts and is a joy to fly. Mike |
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