OT - Video Card Question(s)

Okay, this thread isn't totally off-topic, as my questions are related
to making the piloting experience more real in the sim. It's time to
upgrade the Kiwi!

(See it he http://alexisparkinn.com/the_kiwi_is_born.htm ).

I want to add a second monitor (dedicated for the panel), and use the
104" projection screen for the "out-the-window-world-view" only. This
means that I need a video card with two video outputs. "Lesser" models
seem to have a single DVI output and a single VGA (AKA: D-Sub) output,
while "better" models have two DVI outputs.

Our flight sim PC is a Dell Optiplex GX260, Pentium 4, with a gig of
RAM -- but only an AGP slot for video card upgrade. The current card
is a Radeon 7000, with just 32 mb of on-board memory, and a single VGA
port. This Dell system "only" has a 250 watt power supply, which --
along with the AGP slot -- pretty much eliminates the "latest &
greatest" video cards, all of which need a bigger power supply and/or
require a PCI-Express expansion slot.

Compatibility with an older system like this is obviously a problem. I
tried installing an ATI X1600 today (from Worst Buy), with 512 MB
on-board, and the PC wouldn't even boot up with it installed! I
obviously had pushed my older computer past its limits.

So, I'm aiming a bit lower, and looking at the EVGA GEForce 6600LE. See
it he

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130262

It's reasonably priced, seems to have decent specs that are within the
limits of my PC, and is in-stock. Anyone have any experience with this
board? Anyone got a better idea?

I've spent five hours dinking around with this, between trips to Best
Buy and time researching on-line, and I'm starting to go cross-eyed!

Thanks,
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 19 Nov 2006 05:38:12 -0800, Jay Honeck wrote:

So, I'm aiming a bit lower, and looking at the EVGA GEForce 6600LE. See
it he

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130262

according to the manufacturer:
http://www.evga.com/products/moreinf...0-TX&family=17
---snip
Requirements
Minimum of a 300 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amp
Amps.)
---snap

and I'd look into a card with passive cooling - _if_ possible.

#m
--
Enemy Combatant http://itsnotallbad.com/

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130262

according to the manufacturer:
http://www.evga.com/products/moreinf...0-TX&family=17
---snip
Requirements
Minimum of a 300 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amp
Amps.)
---snap

and I'd look into a card with passive cooling - _if_ possible.

Nuts. I was afraid of something like that.

Any suggestions?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Nuts. I was afraid of something like that.

Any suggestions?

Well, considering how far you've gone with this fruit, you might
consider getting a new machine (computers are practially disposable
nowadays) and dedicating it to the kiwi. Get one with four (or more!)
video outputs, and dedicate the other two to side windows. A few spare
monitors and you'd have a simulator that would even get Mx to visit you
from France.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

You must use compatible video cards, be sure to check the
specs to be sure that you can run two monitors with
completely different outputs. Often you just split the
desktop, you need two independent outputs.

You may want to look into one of the new computers with a
dual core CPU, PCIe video and plenty of power and cooling.


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
| Okay, this thread isn't totally off-topic, as my questions
are related
| to making the piloting experience more real in the sim.
It's time to
| upgrade the Kiwi!
|
| (See it he
http://alexisparkinn.com/the_kiwi_is_born.htm ).
|
| I want to add a second monitor (dedicated for the panel),
and use the
| 104" projection screen for the "out-the-window-world-view"
only. This
| means that I need a video card with two video outputs.
"Lesser" models
| seem to have a single DVI output and a single VGA (AKA:
D-Sub) output,
| while "better" models have two DVI outputs.
|
| Our flight sim PC is a Dell Optiplex GX260, Pentium 4,
with a gig of
| RAM -- but only an AGP slot for video card upgrade. The
current card
| is a Radeon 7000, with just 32 mb of on-board memory, and
a single VGA
| port. This Dell system "only" has a 250 watt power
supply, which --
| along with the AGP slot -- pretty much eliminates the
"latest &
| greatest" video cards, all of which need a bigger power
supply and/or
| require a PCI-Express expansion slot.
|
| Compatibility with an older system like this is obviously
a problem. I
| tried installing an ATI X1600 today (from Worst Buy), with
512 MB
| on-board, and the PC wouldn't even boot up with it
installed! I
| obviously had pushed my older computer past its limits.
|
| So, I'm aiming a bit lower, and looking at the EVGA
GEForce 6600LE. See
| it he
|
|
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130262
|
| It's reasonably priced, seems to have decent specs that
are within the
| limits of my PC, and is in-stock. Anyone have any
experience with this
| board? Anyone got a better idea?
|
| I've spent five hours dinking around with this, between
trips to Best
| Buy and time researching on-line, and I'm starting to go
cross-eyed!
|
| Thanks,
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

In article . com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

I've spent five hours dinking around with this,

First time I read it I saw "I spent five hours drinking around this,..."
It sounded like an appropriate way to solve the problem.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
[...]
This Dell system "only" has a 250 watt power supply, which --
along with the AGP slot -- pretty much eliminates the "latest &
greatest" video cards, all of which need a bigger power supply and/or
require a PCI-Express expansion slot.

Compatibility with an older system like this is obviously a problem. I
tried installing an ATI X1600 today (from Worst Buy), with 512 MB
on-board, and the PC wouldn't even boot up with it installed! I
obviously had pushed my older computer past its limits.

So, I'm aiming a bit lower, and looking at the EVGA GEForce 6600LE.

You're aiming *lower* than the X1600?

Yikes.

Anyway, I will bet that your power supply is insufficient for a second card,
no matter how underpowered a card you get. 250W just isn't that much. The
P4 is cut from the power-hungry cloth that Intel used for a long time, and
it's likely you have enough other components to push power usage up close to
what the power supply is actually capable of.

Speaking of which, the total power available is likely something less than
250W, by the way. I wouldn't be surprised if Dell's 250W PS is capable of
250W peak power, but provides something less than that steady state. Even
if the power supply can do a steady 250W, the total power rating of a power
supply only provides a rough guide...you need to look at the ratings in the
individual power outputs of the supply and compare them to what they are
feeding. If you've got (for example) one "rail" putting out 30A and another
putting out 15A, trying to feed two components that require 20A each,
there's no direct way that will work. Neither component can use the 15A
rail, and the two combined exceed the 30A rail's capacity. Even though the
40A requirement is less than your theoretical 45A capacity, it actually is
greater than what the power supply is capable of.

Anyway...

At a minimum, your first step should be to upgrade the power supply. If you
expect to use that computer with two video cards, I think it's practically
guaranteed that you need a beefier power supply. If you want to keep it
simple, get something 350W or higher. If you want to do some extra legwork
and possibly buy something cheaper, then learn about how the power ratings
for individual rails on a power supply work, as well as how to determine
what rails feed what components, so that way you can see if a lower capacity
power supply would still work.

Personally, I wouldn't waste time buying a really low-end video card. Even
the X1600 is a few generations old, and going lower-end is just a waste of
time and effort, if not money. For only a little more, you can get a much
better card, even remaining down at the lower end of the performance
spectrum. I'd look at something in the X1800 range, or 6800/6900 for nVidia
chipsets, if you really must go low-end.

That said, really what you ought to be thinking about is going high-end, if
you really intend to keep using this computer for awhile. It'll cost more,
but you will get more longevity and bang for your buck. You can get an AGP
version of nVidia's 7800 chipset, or wait a few weeks and ATI will have
their X1950 on the shelves in an AGP version.

Especially given that you are using this for MSFS, and especially given that
you will only get the best 3D graphics and frame rates out of their latest
version if you are using a completely modern video card, you are cheating
yourself if you go low-end on this. Your current video card is really only
suitable for drawing the instrument panel, IMHO.

And finally, all of the above said, I have to say that I agree with Jose on
this one. The computer you're messing with sounds pretty low-end to start
with. That appears to be the reason you're aiming low-end for the video
card as well, but IMHO that's a false economy. You can get a cheap PC today
that beats the pants off your Dell for about $500. If you spend $1000 you
can get a PC that is near the high end of available performance, including
the video card. For the effort, time, and expense you've put into this
project already, you ought to just go modern all the way on the PC hardware,
ensuring that you are getting the best possible image, performance, and
flight experience from your flight simulator. (And yes, if you do wind up
doing that, you might consider getting a PC that handle a couple of video
cards, each with a couple of outputs, for that excessive multi-screen
experience ).

On the bright side, if you buy a new PC, you don't have to worry about
upgrading the power supply on the old one.

Pete

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 18:48:51 GMT, john smith wrote:

I've spent five hours dinking around with this,

First time I read it I saw "I spent five hours drinking around this,..."
It sounded like an appropriate way to solve the problem.

it would also have solved the split screen issue, too. only temporarily, of
course. *g*

#m
--
Enemy Combatant http://itsnotallbad.com/

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 10:24:48 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

You may want to look into one of the new computers with a
dual core CPU, PCIe video and plenty of power and cooling.

the good thing of those core 2 duo machines is that they didn't use this
much power anymore (350W PSU are OK, depending on graphics and other
accessories) and don't produce that much heat than the prescott modells
did. And they also produce less noise, too.

my suggestion:
- motherboard with either raid on board or a extra raid controller
(fasttrack has cheap and good ones)
- 2 S-ATA harddrives with raid 1 mirroring. If you lose one drive you can
still work (fly) and can get yourself a new drive, so you save yourself
setting up the machine again. samsung!
- intel core 2 duo cpu
- min. 1 gig ram, the faster the better (ddr2 667mhz, samsung ... *yammi*)
- graphic card with DVI out (you'll buy new monitors later and will have
DVI-IN), ~256mb ram.
- optical drive (samsung)
- floppy (yes, you'll need one for the raid controller, external usb will
not be recognised by windows during install)

IMHO, RAID will save you a lot of time and hassle, because you'll lose one
drive the monemt you will like it the least (according to Murphy's law).

#m
--
Enemy Combatant http://itsnotallbad.com/

In article ,
Martin Hotze wrote:

- 2 S-ATA harddrives with raid 1 mirroring. If you lose one drive you can
still work (fly) and can get yourself a new drive, so you save yourself
setting up the machine again. samsung!

Another way to increase speed... look at installing Western Digital
RAPTOR HD (spins at 10,000 rpm). Watch the specs to make certain the PS
can handle them.