Altimeter Question

Hi,

In article ,
wrote:
A relayed Mayday is likely to be on there too, from memory the call is:

Mayday mayday mayday, G-ABCD have intercepted Mayday from G-WXYZ, I say
again, G-WXYZ.



Nope, your memeory is quite confused. "I say again" sounds like
Hollywood R/T.

I should probably have made it more clear that I'm in the UK.

Here's CAP413, the definitive guide for R/T in the UK

The relayed Mayday is on page 139.

'I say again' is used in a number of place I seem to remember. The other one
that springs to mind is when ATC instruct an aircraft to abort take off.

Andy

Hi,

In article ,
wrote:
On Apr 20, 5:34*am, Andy Hawkins wrote:


One of my instructors (a very experienced RAF pilot) actually advocated
making the mayday call and then switching the radio off in the case of an
engine failure, as otherwise the military unit we'd likely be talking to
would probably want all sorts of other information, and my attention could
best be spent dealing with the problem at hand.



That would be very dumb. Suppose their question was "Where are you?"
Just rememeber flying the plane always comes first.

Yeah, I think his comment was slightly tongue in cheek. Anywhere, they're
know where I was is I used the full Mayday call as we're supposed to.

For reference (again CAP 413 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.PDF)

Page 137 contains the full mayday call and some examples.

Andy

On Apr 20, 10:23*pm, Andy Hawkins wrote:
Hi,

In article ,
* * * * * wrote:

A relayed Mayday is likely to be on there too, from memory the call is:

Mayday mayday mayday, G-ABCD have intercepted Mayday from G-WXYZ, I say
again, G-WXYZ.

Nope, your memeory is quite confused. *"I say again" sounds like
Hollywood R/T.

I should probably have made it more clear that I'm in the UK.

Here's CAP413, the definitive guide for R/T in the UK

The relayed Mayday is on page 139.

'I say again' is used in a number of place I seem to remember. The other one
that springs to mind is when ATC instruct an aircraft to abort take off.


Well it's completely redundent, a waste of time and could be confused
with "say again". All you need to do is just repeat the message!
What's I find strange is that the stated format of the mayday ralay
does not follow international conventions. I wonder who wrote it?

This is how it should be:

Mayday relay, mayday relay, mayday relay, (station 3x), Received
mayday (distress station) (distress message reproduced), mayday

Cheers

On 2008-04-19, WingFlaps wrote:
Nope, your memeory is quite confused. "I say again" sounds like
Hollywood R/T.

Uhm, no. It's proper radio procedure in the US as well. The proper
interrogative form is "say again?".
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

In radio procedure, using Q codes in speech is technically improper,
although it's done all the time (at least on the ham bands). The FAA, being
sticklers for proper procedure, would naturally include this bit. There are
no Q codes in use in aviation in the US any more, TTBOMK.

So...what would you say instead of "Request QDM" in the U.S.? "Request
magnetic bearing to your station"? Sounds clumsy.

The most important Q-codes still in use here in Germany are probably QNH,
QFE, QDM, QDR.

Kai,

So...what would you say instead of "Request QDM" in the U.S.?

You would say to yourself: "Gotta switch on that GPS". ;-)

The most important Q-codes still in use here in Germany are probably QNH,
QFE, QDM, QDR.

Hmm. QNH is used everyday, of course. I haven't heard QFE ever except in
the UK. QDM and QDR are used in written exams, but not really in practice,
in my experience.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Hi,

In article ,
wrote:

Well it's completely redundent, a waste of time and could be confused
with "say again". All you need to do is just repeat the message!
What's I find strange is that the stated format of the mayday ralay
does not follow international conventions. I wonder who wrote it?

That document is the official CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) reference for
R/T, presumably for the UK.

The introduction says it is based on ICAO Annex 10 Volume 2 (Communications
Procedures). It also includes the following statement:

"Where the ICAO standard phraseology may be misunderstood, or has weaknesses
in the UK environment, different phraseology has been specified (and
notified to ICAO). Significant differences between the ICAO standard
phraseology and that specified for use in CAP 413 are described in Appendix
1 to this publication."

Appendix 1 doesn't mention any differences in the Mayday messages.

(Note, I'm not arguing you're wrong, I don't know enough to be able to do
that. Just repeating what the documentation I've been reading says)

Andy

WingFlaps,

Well it's completely redundent, a waste of time and could be confused
with "say again". All you need to do is just repeat the message!

Your opinion is all fine and well. However, the gold standard on this is ICAO. As
Andy says, "I say again" is ICAO standard phraseology per Annex 10 Volume II
(http://www.caa.govt.nz/ICAO/Annex_10..._Cmp_Stmt.pdf).

For the US, check the Pilot Controller Glossary as the definitive and official
source for phraseology. Under "I", you'll find:

I SAY AGAIN- The message will be repeated.

This is how it should be:

Mayday relay, mayday relay, mayday relay, (station 3x), Received
mayday (distress station) (distress message reproduced), mayday

And the source for that is?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Apr 21, 10:59*pm, Andy Hawkins wrote:
Hi,

In article ,
* * * * * wrote:

Well it's completely redundent, a waste of time and could be confused
with "say again". All you need to do is just repeat the message!
What's I find strange is that the stated format of the mayday ralay
does not follow international conventions. I wonder who wrote it?

That document is the official CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) reference for
R/T, presumably for the UK.

The introduction says it is based on ICAO Annex 10 Volume 2 (Communications
Procedures). It also includes the following statement:

"Where the ICAO standard phraseology may be misunderstood, or has weaknesses
in the UK environment, different phraseology has been specified (and
notified to ICAO). Significant differences between the ICAO standard
phraseology and that specified for use in CAP 413 are described in Appendix
1 to this publication."

Appendix 1 doesn't mention any differences in the Mayday messages.

(Note, I'm not arguing you're wrong, I don't know enough to be able to do
that. Just repeating what the documentation I've been reading says)


Fair enough. It's what happens when desk jockies take over running the
world. God forbid they should bother to check what is known/
established. That way they get to keep their jobs endlessly revising
poor practice.


Cheers

Andy Hawkins schrieb:

What's I find strange is that the stated format of the mayday ralay
does not follow international conventions. I wonder who wrote it?

The introduction says it is based on ICAO Annex 10 Volume 2 (Communications
Procedures).

It is.

International Civil Aviation Organization
International Standards and Recommended Practices and Procedures for Air
Navigation Services

Annex 10
Aeronautical Telecommunications

Sixth Edition October 2001


5.2.1.5.8 The following words and phrases shall be used in
radiotelephony communications as appropriate and shall have the meaning
ascribed hereunder:

Phrase: I SAY AGAIN
Meaning: "I repeat for clarity or emphasis."