Vertica V2 (Avier) vs Oudie?

On Monday, May 19, 2014 8:23:23 PM UTC-5, Mark628CA wrote:
You guys do realize that this thread is quickly devolving into a texting-while-flying discussion.



EYES UP AND OUT!

Is that any worse than staring-at-a-chart-trying-to-figure-out-where-you-are? Big touch areas and customizable fonts/features are what allow the pilot to setup his PNA so that minimal time is spent screwing with it to get the info he wants/needs!

Kirk
66

I know you don't really "stare at a chart" to "figure out where you
are", but I understand what you're saying. I like to stare out the
window and not lose track of where I am. The computer is there to give
me an idea of my altitude required to get home and to give me an initial
heading to some point that I haven't visited before.

Having said that, on my last flight my Streak/XCSoar was giving me bad
information on final glide. I don't know why, software or gps issue,
but it told me that I would not make it home while my eyes told me that
I would. We now call them "computers"; we used to call them "prayer
wheels".

Dan Marotta 5J

On 5/20/2014 6:33 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
On Monday, May 19, 2014 8:23:23 PM UTC-5, Mark628CA wrote:
You guys do realize that this thread is quickly devolving into a texting-while-flying discussion.



EYES UP AND OUT!
Is that any worse than staring-at-a-chart-trying-to-figure-out-where-you-are? Big touch areas and customizable fonts/features are what allow the pilot to setup his PNA so that minimal time is spent screwing with it to get the info he wants/needs!

Kirk
66

On Monday, May 19, 2014 11:05:27 AM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
On Monday, May 19, 2014 10:13:23 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:



That makes positioning the cursor (especially in bumpy conditions) in the small boxes required by Winpilot and in the ridiculously small boxes required by SYM difficult compared to the older products. I have been told by Oudie owners that this is not a problem, and wonder if either the Qudie has a better touchscreen, or they are just insensitive to the problem?



You do realize that you can make the touch boxes on SYM bigger - or combine several into really big touch area by assigning the same command to adjacent boxes?



The beauty of SYM is that it is almost totally customizable.



Kirk

66

Yo can make the nav boxes larger, but you can't do anything about most of the dialog boxes (for example) that edit a task list. Those are fixed in all three software packages. In some cases you can make the font size larger which has the effect of making the box taller, but also rendering so few characters as to make it useless. Running SYM as it installs from the publisher, some of the fields in preferences and task editing are nearly impossible to activate without using the stylus on my Avier - a fingertip is too coarse. Not much problem running the same on a Compaq 3950. Since SYM has the most verbose interface of anything I have seen, it suffers the most. I have moved on to modern software and hardware now, so it doesn't hinder me, but I was curious if there were any differences in the touch screens.

Originally Posted by waremark

I don't know if the Avier is still available. I understand that neither of the similar units previously sold in Europe, the Vertica V2 and the GliderGuider, are available any longer. Vertica may have plans to introduce a new improved product in due course.

I have extensive experience of Oudie 1, Oudie 2 and GliderGuider. Currently, I run SeeYou Mobile on a GliderGuider using the internal gps but external power as a backup to my LX9000. I can confirm that Oudie 2 and GliderGuider have the same - truly excellent - screen brightness, and that for either one you need an external power source if you want to run for more than about 2 hours.

The big advantage to me of GliderGuider is that it uses an aviation gps. Oudie uses a car gps, which is not accurate when circling and therefore does not give accurate wind. As a result, if you are using the internal gps, Oudie does not give an accurate final glide - Naviter accept this. This was my reason for getting the GliderGuider to replace an Oudie. SYM on the GG gives very similar wind and final glide to the LX9000. The GG was also supplied for less money than an Oudie 2 with a good selection of accessories and leads. I had good support when I experienced a hardware issue - not the fault of the unit - on the GG. I do not consider it difficult to install any of the software programmes on the GG but some people might want help with it.

Most people at my club who have bought in the last 18 months have bought the GliderGuider, and are using it with the free LK8000 - a stunning value combination. (If you want to use the also free XC Soar, you do better to find an Android device to use it on, maybe a cheap e-reader if you can accept monochrome - see the XC Soar forum.). Personally, I prefer SYM to the free programmes and have a license. I recommend it strongly - but on choice of software what I mostly recommend is to use a product which is popular at your club. All the rival software products are enormously powerful, none are particularly easy to learn.

On the other hand, I can also confirm that the faster processor and greater memory of the Oudie do make a noticeable difference to screen refresh times. There are many situations where there is a noticeable delay to screen redrawing, and it is much longer on the GG than on the Oudie - and slightly annoying. We are talking about several seconds delay on the GG before the map details come back after exiting the thermal assistant, for example. If you use SeeYou Mobile software, the internal gps can be used as a backup to an external gps only on the Oudie. SYM cannont do this on any other device, although LK8000 and XC Soar can both do this on most devices. If you buy an Oudie, you get lifetime free updates of SYM, whereas if you want to use SYM on another device as I do and to keep it up to date you have to pay an annual fee (current £50).

For somebody intending to use an external gps source I would recommend the Oudie 2 even if the Avier is still available because of the better performance. The best device of the lot is the Oudie IGC with a day long battery, accurate gps and IGC logger, but it is much more expensive. It is poor value unless you need an additional IGC logger.

I would mention that however good Naviter's support has generally been they have made a bad mistake in the last few weeks, issuing an update which has caused substantial problems. This is a rare mistake by Naviter and has already been mostly sorted out.

I expect that whatever you buy now, there will be something better along shortly - probably a colour e-ink Android device.

Good luck!

Mark Burton, serial gps buyer, London Gliding Club, UK

On Monday, 19 May 2014 04:42:55 UTC+1, Nicholas L wrote:
Can someone comment as to Sunlight readability of the Vertica V2 in comparison to the Naviter Oudie 2?



I have read that the Vertica can run multiple applications at once while the Oudie only can run one. The gps accuracy of the Vertica is supposedly better.



Are there other features of the Oudie that make it a superior choice to the Vertica / Avier?



Nick

Hello Wavemark,

You say ... The big advantage to me of GliderGuider is that it uses an aviation gps. Oudie uses a car gps, which is not accurate when circling and therefore does not give accurate wind. As a result, if you are using the internal gps, Oudie does not give an accurate final glide ...

Did not know there was a difference... can you suggest a "aviation gps" for my Oudie Lite? I would like to make that improvement.
Thanks...

I've used both (as well as many other PDAs, SeeYouMobile, XCSoar, LK8000, and iGlide)... And it basically comes down to 3 things:

1) The early-generation Oudie units are clearly inferior to the Vertica/Avier systems (although it pre-dated them so its not surprising).
2) The latest-generation Oudies and Vertica/Avier systems are very comparable. Yes there are differences (better GPS in the Vertica/Avier, slightly better processor/refresh in the Oudie); but in practical flying they don't make a _huge_ difference.
3) The Oudie is explicitly designed to work with SeeYouMobile.

BOTTOM LINE:
-----
If you are a SeeYouMobile person, buy the latest Oudie.
If you are an LK8000/XCSoar/WinPilot user, buy the latest Vertica/Avier.
Also:
If you want to use your Android smartphone, get XCSoar**
If you want to use your iOS device, get iGlide**

Enjoy,

--Noel

**OK, these last two are both admittedly my personal opinion. And there may be more Android-compatible soaring software since I last looked about 9 months ago. In either case, I'm still a fan of dedicated hardware in the cockpit and using smartphones/tablets as backup devices.

Is there a known generic supplier for the Vertica V2? It would seem obvious that this screen and gps chip combo is available under another name.

Other names I have found for the device are, Avier, Gliderguider, Britenav, Sunbrite, however all of these devices are likely just rebranding someone else's PNA however...

The key features of the V2 are a 5" 400 x 272 LCD, and the SiRF star III GPS.

If someone can locate the OEM supplier perhaps they can post it for the benefit of everyone?

I think the guys selling these devices are each buying components and assembling them. I don't think there is a generic supplier of a complete device which has all the features suitable for our application. I have heard that it has become difficult for them to obtain some of the components for the relatively small volumes needed.

On Wed, 21 May 2014 00:19:39 -0700, waremark wrote:

I think the guys selling these devices are each buying components and
assembling them. I don't think there is a generic supplier of a complete
device which has all the features suitable for our application. I have
heard that it has become difficult for them to obtain some of the
components for the relatively small volumes needed.

In that case what we (all right, *I*) want is essentially the same kit
but running Android or a straight Debian Linux and I, for one would
appreciate a 4.2" screen as an alternative to the near-universal 5" one
due to the limited panel space in my Libelle.

Why? Because WinCE is now virtually extinct and dead as far as new PNAs
are concerned, and meanwhile both XCSoar and LK8000 5 have versions
running on Linux.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Monday, May 19, 2014 4:14:19 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
I don't know if the Avier is still available. I understand that neither of the similar units previously sold in Europe, the Vertica V2 and the GliderGuider, are available any longer. Vertica may have plans to introduce a new improved product in due course.



I have extensive experience of Oudie 1, Oudie 2 and GliderGuider. Currently, I run SeeYou Mobile on a GliderGuider using the internal gps but external power as a backup to my LX9000. I can confirm that Oudie 2 and GliderGuider have the same - truly excellent - screen brightness, and that for either one you need an external power source if you want to run for more than about 2 hours.



The big advantage to me of GliderGuider is that it uses an aviation gps. Oudie uses a car gps, which is not accurate when circling and therefore does not give accurate wind. As a result, if you are using the internal gps, Oudie does not give an accurate final glide - Naviter accept this. This was my reason for getting the GliderGuider to replace an Oudie. SYM on the GG gives very similar wind and final glide to the LX9000. The GG was also supplied for less money than an Oudie 2 with a good selection of accessories and leads. I had good support when I experienced a hardware issue - not the fault of the unit - on the GG. I do not consider it difficult to install any of the software programmes on the GG but some people might want help with it.



Most people at my club who have bought in the last 18 months have bought the GliderGuider, and are using it with the free LK8000 - a stunning value combination. (If you want to use the also free XC Soar, you do better to find an Android device to use it on, maybe a cheap e-reader if you can accept monochrome - see the XC Soar forum.). Personally, I prefer SYM to the free programmes and have a license. I recommend it strongly - but on choice of software what I mostly recommend is to use a product which is popular at your club. All the rival software products are enormously powerful, none are particularly easy to learn.



On the other hand, I can also confirm that the faster processor and greater memory of the Oudie do make a noticeable difference to screen refresh times. There are many situations where there is a noticeable delay to screen redrawing, and it is much longer on the GG than on the Oudie - and slightly annoying. We are talking about several seconds delay on the GG before the map details come back after exiting the thermal assistant, for example. If you use SeeYou Mobile software, the internal gps can be used as a backup to an external gps only on the Oudie. SYM cannont do this on any other device, although LK8000 and XC Soar can both do this on most devices. If you buy an Oudie, you get lifetime free updates of SYM, whereas if you want to use SYM on another device as I do and to keep it up to date you have to pay an annual fee (current £50).



For somebody intending to use an external gps source I would recommend the Oudie 2 even if the Avier is still available because of the better performance. The best device of the lot is the Oudie IGC with a day long battery, accurate gps and IGC logger, but it is much more expensive. It is poor value unless you need an additional IGC logger.



I would mention that however good Naviter's support has generally been they have made a bad mistake in the last few weeks, issuing an update which has caused substantial problems. This is a rare mistake by Naviter and has already been mostly sorted out.



I expect that whatever you buy now, there will be something better along shortly - probably a colour e-ink Android device.



Good luck!



Mark Burton, serial gps buyer, London Gliding Club, UK



On Monday, 19 May 2014 04:42:55 UTC+1, Nicholas L wrote:

Can someone comment as to Sunlight readability of the Vertica V2 in comparison to the Naviter Oudie 2?







I have read that the Vertica can run multiple applications at once while the Oudie only can run one. The gps accuracy of the Vertica is supposedly better.







Are there other features of the Oudie that make it a superior choice to the Vertica / Avier?







Nick

Avier is in stock and available at Wings & Wheels.

Sean Franke

At 10:08 21 May 2014, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 00:19:39 -0700, waremark wrote:

I think the guys selling these devices are each buying components and
assembling them. I don't think there is a generic supplier of a
complete
device which has all the features suitable for our application. I have
heard that it has become difficult for them to obtain some of the
components for the relatively small volumes needed.

In that case what we (all right, *I*) want is essentially the same kit
but running Android or a straight Debian Linux and I, for one would
appreciate a 4.2" screen as an alternative to the near-universal 5" one
due to the limited panel space in my Libelle.

Why? Because WinCE is now virtually extinct and dead as far as new PNAs
are concerned, and meanwhile both XCSoar and LK8000 5 have versions
running on Linux.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |


Not exactly. LK8000 is still on beta 4.1W (5.0 was promised for late
January, but isn't here yet). It's also only on WinCE, although there has
been talk on the forum of a Linux version once 5.0 has been put to bed.

XCSoar has the virtue of running on Android, which is available on real
world devices you can use in the cockpit, however since the 5 inch Dell
Streak was discontinued, I'm not aware of anything as bright as the
Vertica/GG/Oudie that runs it.

I'm sticking with my (now) old Vertica V1 running LK8000 with an external
GPS feed from Flarm- I can't see any reason to upgrade yet, and I'm in no
hurry to learn a new piece of software.