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Interesting video from OGN



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 21st 17, 12:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 51
Default Interesting video from OGN

From: Daniel Herzig
Date: 18 June 2017 at 23:51:36 GMT+2
To:
Subject: [OGN] OGN the movie


Hi guys,

I created a movie dubbed "OGN the movie" of todays gliding activities in southern Germany using live.glidernet.org.
Have a look here (2:45 min):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doqfqEUajeo

I made it to show what OGN is already able to do and to stir the discussion about it.
Feedback welcome.

Cheers,
Daniel
  #2  
Old June 21st 17, 01:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Posts: 718
Default Interesting video from OGN

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 7:13:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:
From: Daniel Herzig
Date: 18 June 2017 at 23:51:36 GMT+2
To:
Subject: [OGN] OGN the movie


Hi guys,

I created a movie dubbed "OGN the movie" of todays gliding activities in southern Germany using live.glidernet.org.
Have a look here (2:45 min):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doqfqEUajeo

I made it to show what OGN is already able to do and to stir the discussion about it.
Feedback welcome.

Cheers,
Daniel


Label colors:

Yellow gliders
Green tow planes
Blue helicopters
Red planes
  #3  
Old June 21st 17, 03:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 1,005
Default Interesting video from OGN

Fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to share this video. As a US pilot, it is inspirational to see all the soaring that occurs in Europe each day and the phenomenal tracking resolution you have created. I wish we had this kind of vision and technology adoption over here.

Unfortunately, here in the USA, PowerFlarm has been (essentially) branded as meaningless for safety and some of our leaders openly argue that PowerFlarm is utilized primarily as a long range competition leeching tool. This is not supported by any facts or evidence yet they really, really want to burn the witch!

MONTY PYTHON - BURN THE WITCH - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

PowerFlarm is not mandatory (even in competition) in the US and therefore PowerFlarm has become almost useless as a safety device at our competitions (and at our popular soaring locals). By design I believe, it is rapidly dying. Several have actually uninstalled and sold their PowerFlarms. They are only $50 to rent…and our rental program is probably close to failing (if not failed already) due to the non-mandatory rule.

Oh, l almost forgot. Despite an actual US "vote" on PowerFlarm Stealth Mode being shot down (badly) twice, our leaders continue to openly encourage/allow/even promote Stealth Mode (even at our National competitions) even though the manufacturer strongly recommends against this in the product manuals (legal in our US Rules to run Stealth).

I would estimate that 50% of the PowerFlarms (maybe 60-70% adoption of the total number of competitors) most recent US Nationals were using Stealth Mode.

I think this is a very sad situation and that the Monty Python skit aptly describes the logic being used.

$50 is just not a financial obstacle for a pilot attending a national level contest.

#theworldisnotflat

  #4  
Old June 21st 17, 03:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Interesting video from OGN

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 8:07:11 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to share this video. As a US pilot, it is inspirational to see all the soaring that occurs in Europe each day and the phenomenal tracking resolution you have created. I wish we had this kind of vision and technology adoption over here.

Unfortunately, here in the USA, PowerFlarm has been (essentially) branded as meaningless for safety and some of our leaders openly argue that PowerFlarm is utilized primarily as a long range competition leeching tool. This is not supported by any facts or evidence yet they really, really want to burn the witch!

MONTY PYTHON - BURN THE WITCH - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

PowerFlarm is not mandatory (even in competition) in the US and therefore PowerFlarm has become almost useless as a safety device at our competitions (and at our popular soaring locals). By design I believe, it is rapidly dying. Several have actually uninstalled and sold their PowerFlarms. They are only $50 to rent…and our rental program is probably close to failing (if not failed already) due to the non-mandatory rule.

Oh, l almost forgot. Despite an actual US "vote" on PowerFlarm Stealth Mode being shot down (badly) twice, our leaders continue to openly encourage/allow/even promote Stealth Mode (even at our National competitions) even though the manufacturer strongly recommends against this in the product manuals (legal in our US Rules to run Stealth).

I would estimate that 50% of the PowerFlarms (maybe 60-70% adoption of the total number of competitors) most recent US Nationals were using Stealth Mode.

I think this is a very sad situation and that the Monty Python skit aptly describes the logic being used.

$50 is just not a financial obstacle for a pilot attending a national level contest.

#theworldisnotflat


Sean - please sit down, shut up, and let us enjoy this person's post and video without having to hear your lectures.

PowerFlarm was mandatory (NOT in stealth mode by the way) at the 3 US Nationals held last year in Nephi. You attended, and you know that was the case but you state publicly the opposite here. Is that dishonesty or selective memory? Please go troll some sailing forums.

Bruno - B4
  #5  
Old June 21st 17, 04:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Posts: 653
Default Interesting video from OGN

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 7:13:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:
From: Daniel Herzig
Date: 18 June 2017 at 23:51:36 GMT+2
To:
Subject: [OGN] OGN the movie


Hi guys,

I created a movie dubbed "OGN the movie" of todays gliding activities in southern Germany using live.glidernet.org.
Have a look here (2:45 min):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doqfqEUajeo

I made it to show what OGN is already able to do and to stir the discussion about it.
Feedback welcome.

Cheers,
Daniel


That's fantastic - dankeschoen!
Uli
'AS'
  #6  
Old June 21st 17, 04:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 1,005
Default Interesting video from OGN

Oh Bruno. Really?

First, last I checked, Nephi is not the center of the gliding universe.

I'm calling attention to ALL other US contests and specifically citing my experiences from the 15/Open/Standard Class Nationals (a week ago) in Cordele which was my first experience with rampant (50%) use of Stealth Mode and/or total dis-installation of the PowerFlarm device from competitors gliders (in several cases).

I continue to commend the Nephi club for requiring Flarm but the trend here in the USA is to kill PowerFlarm via the entirely false narrative that the technology is being used only for competition leaching despite zero proof or evidence. There have also been two SSA votes regarding Stealth Mode proposals which were shot down harshly by the US pilots. Ultimately, the anti-flarm "flat-earthers" have gone forward with Stealth Mode despite those SSA votes and despite clear warnings within PowerFlarms own product documentation recommending that owners DO NOT to use Stealth mode EVER. The US leaders are succeeding at killing Flarm despite hundreds of US pilots who made significant personal investments for community safety. Safety is still highly relevant and very important, per your boast that Nephi makes Flarm Mandatory (along with all of Europe) yet the US is doing the exact opposite…

I found the result of this policy to be eye openly dangerous on two occasions in Cordele. It was clear to me that the typical warnings had failed or happened to late for me to react to gliders I know were in Stealth Mode. I believe that this status is a big problem.

Please take a deep breath Bruno. Relax and have fun. Enjoy your video. But truth and honesty also matters. If you travel outside of Nephi, keep your head on swivel as PowerFlarm has quitely become all but useless in terms of safety in most (all) US contests moving forward, Few care. Sadly, one tragedy and this conversation will take on a very different meaning.

Meanwhile, Europe is in a different realm and has amazing continental wide sailplane tracking to boot.


On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 10:40:47 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 8:07:11 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to share this video. As a US pilot, it is inspirational to see all the soaring that occurs in Europe each day and the phenomenal tracking resolution you have created. I wish we had this kind of vision and technology adoption over here.

Unfortunately, here in the USA, PowerFlarm has been (essentially) branded as meaningless for safety and some of our leaders openly argue that PowerFlarm is utilized primarily as a long range competition leeching tool. This is not supported by any facts or evidence yet they really, really want to burn the witch!

MONTY PYTHON - BURN THE WITCH - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

PowerFlarm is not mandatory (even in competition) in the US and therefore PowerFlarm has become almost useless as a safety device at our competitions (and at our popular soaring locals). By design I believe, it is rapidly dying. Several have actually uninstalled and sold their PowerFlarms. They are only $50 to rent…and our rental program is probably close to failing (if not failed already) due to the non-mandatory rule.

Oh, l almost forgot. Despite an actual US "vote" on PowerFlarm Stealth Mode being shot down (badly) twice, our leaders continue to openly encourage/allow/even promote Stealth Mode (even at our National competitions) even though the manufacturer strongly recommends against this in the product manuals (legal in our US Rules to run Stealth).

I would estimate that 50% of the PowerFlarms (maybe 60-70% adoption of the total number of competitors) most recent US Nationals were using Stealth Mode.

I think this is a very sad situation and that the Monty Python skit aptly describes the logic being used.

$50 is just not a financial obstacle for a pilot attending a national level contest.

#theworldisnotflat


Sean - please sit down, shut up, and let us enjoy this person's post and video without having to hear your lectures.

PowerFlarm was mandatory (NOT in stealth mode by the way) at the 3 US Nationals held last year in Nephi. You attended, and you know that was the case but you state publicly the opposite here. Is that dishonesty or selective memory? Please go troll some sailing forums.

Bruno - B4

  #7  
Old June 21st 17, 05:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 962
Default Interesting video from OGN

Bruno: it's better if you read all that crap in the voice of Eric Cartman. Or Don Knotts as the incredible Mr. Limpet. Both work for me.

Best,

Evan / T8
  #8  
Old June 21st 17, 07:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Garrett McEwen
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Posts: 12
Default Interesting video from OGN

That is incredible! I wonder if there are that many gliders flying in all of the US on any Sunday.
  #9  
Old June 21st 17, 11:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 580
Default Interesting video from OGN

Not really trying to invite controversy, but like Sean, I also just came back from the Cordele Nationals. But I found no evidence that "PowerFlarm has been (essentially) branded as meaningless for safety". Quite the contrary, nearly everyone I spoke to had several stories about how FLARM had helped them avoid a possible collision situation and didn't want to fly without it.. Including me.

I also found no evidence that "some of our leaders openly argue that PowerFlarm is utilized primarily as a long range competition leeching tool." That it is a leeching tool is undeniable (I confess). I don't like that aspect of it but if everyone else is doing it... (yeah, I know I told my children that wasn't a good reason to do something, but this is different!) And leeching is a byproduct of the the safety aspect. If not for safety, why would anyone carry one?

In the past three years, I've flown nationals that were FLARM optional, FLARM mandatory, and Stealth FLARM mandatory. From experience, Stealth worked just fine and the majority of pilots surveyed at Elmira in 2016 were OK with Stealth. I got the safety alerts I wanted but the leeching potential was much reduced. I have no problem if someone wants to run in Stealth mode; I'll still see them in time to take action in all but the most unlikely circumstances. I shouldn't be relying on FLARM alone anyway. Frankly, the only real reason I didn't fly in Stealth mode at Cordele is because of the experience a few pilots seemed to have after Elmira of not being able to regain their previous range. It's not that anyone is going to want to follow me but if I have 7 knots cored on an average 4 knot day, I'd just as soon keep it for myself.

As for the statement that "PowerFlarm has become almost useless as a safety device at our competitions", I'm flummoxed. I know of two gliders at Cordele (of 50) that didn't have FLARM, and at least one of those was flown by a pilot who owns a PowerFLARM (several, I think) but didn't have it installed in the glider he was flying. He would have preferred that he did.

I don't know if "our rental program is probably close to failing (if not failed already)." It was never very large; I investigated it two years ago. But if that's true, I strongly suspect it's because nearly everyone who is a likely candidate for FLARM has already bought one.

FLARM is a great safety device. Those who know how frugally and carefully I invest in soaring equipment were perhaps surprised when I bought mine so quickly. After flying a single contest with it, I wanted it in the cockpit.

As far as safety goes, Sean seems to speak somewhat hypocritically. My brother bought me a SPOT tracker last year at Nephi because he wanted to know my approximate position and if I were still flying. It does a fine job of that. Yet because it doesn't meet Sean's standards for near-real-time tracking, he refers to it as "CRAP", and stated recently that "SPOT does more damage to the goal of making sailplane tracking interesting than good...and feel Spot must be eradicated from this discussion ASAP and at all costs. Spot devices are "eh" for emergency purposes, but even that statement is a stretch."

This brings to mind the old statement about the perfect being the enemy of the good. SPOT is still much better than most technologies or, for sure, nothing at all, at helping keep track of a pilot's position.

I've been guilty of being somewhat alarmist in the past on certain subjects.. But if there's resistance to buying, installing, and using FLARM, to my knowledge it's not from the competition community--pilots or leaders. Quite the contrary; I suspect contest pilots are much more likely than anyone else to have invested in it and would be VERY unhappy--for safety and leeching purposes--to see it go away.

Just my thoughts.

Chip Bearden
"JB"
  #10  
Old June 22nd 17, 02:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Interesting video from OGN

RAS has become the "bully pulpit" for the "World According To Sean."

OK. You can start the "Sean Fidler Soaring Association." Don't charge more than a penny a year for dues. See how many sign up.

 




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