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#41
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Dear Dudley,
I notice that you only reply to the few parts of messages of which you FEEL to have the right on your side. Any other parts of the message you just leave unanswered. To me it is clear that you are only shouting your opinion, and are not ready to discuss the arguments that are put forward by anybody. I call that ignorant. Furthermore I would like to take the opportunity to thank everybody who have sent personal replies, especially since most of them were very positive. Cheers, Iwan "Dudley Henriques" schreef in bericht ink.net... "Michael Wise" wrote in message ... In article et, "Dudley Henriques" wrote: Objecting to the photographer who set up this site is not an attempt to sway people from visiting the site. That is an individual decision. My objection was simply stated to express my personal feelings about people who take these photos for entertainment... Since you object to people shoot photos/film of such things for commercial (entertainment) entertainment purposes can we expect to see you rail on Discovery Channel et al? Or do you support the coverage when its all positive...but reject it when it portrays the periodic mishaps? --Mike This, and your other post to me asking continuisly for an explanation of my objections to the specific context of crash videos being discussed in this thread are a perfect example of why I don't answer posts like yours. The answer has been plainly stated in other posts and is clear to anyone with reasonable intelligence. Your constant demand that I repeat these reasons because you "can't find the answer" isn't enough incentive for me to repost an entire thought process for your personal conveinence. That being said, I've pasted in below the EXACT answer to your constant requests for that answer. If you can't get what I'm saying from this, I'm sorry, I can't help you any further. From a prior post by me and quite clear on the "why's"; The "ethics" that I was attacking and will always continue to attack are not as clearly cut as you would like to have them. The physical act of taking a picture at an air show disaster is only the tip of a large iceberg. The REASON for taking that picture, and what the photographer does with the picture after it's been taken is the area of my concern, NOT the fact that the picture was taken per se, which seems to be the crux of everything you have been attempting to "explain" to me. There is nothing improper about taking photographs or filming a video during an air race or air show disaster IF the reason for taking these pictures isn't prurient. A video shot as a record of the event or to be used as news of the event is one thing. That's ethical. A video of a crash used in a safety program designed to help prevent the same accident from happening again is more than ethical. It's advisable! On the other hand, there are those who take these photographs and film these videos for no other reason than their own prurient interest; a record for them personally to "enjoy" watching and to pass on to others in the public forum as their " the thrill of the day". Photographers who use these photographs in their "hobby" and present them to the public seeking only acclaim for their skill as photographers are completely unethical to us in the airshow community. These people, displaying an aspect of human nature that will unfortunately always be with us, are in my opinion unethical. On the airshow circuit we think of them as human leeches standing there with their cameras waiting for one of us to die so they can catch the moment on film to later be released by them for their own purpose unrelated to anything but their own amusement or profit. The only ethics involved with this issue are the ethics involved for the reasons the camera shutter clicks. There are good reasons and there are bad reasons. The photographers I have so strongly objected to are the one's with the "bad" reasons; the thrill seekers; the "hobbyists". Any race or airshow pilot will tell you that the existence of crash video is a given, and we understand that there will be pictures if something goes wrong for us. In a way, we welcome it, because it might help save another pilot's life, but none of us accept the leech photographers, the paparazzi type, who come to exploit us when something goes wrong. These "hobby" video people fit into the unethical category for us, and yes, we detest them! As for people outside the airshow community discussing an issue like this one with us; everyone of course has the right to an opinion, but it's better that you ASK, rather than TELL when you get into something as close to the show community as this issue. That's just a friendly suggestion. Pilots from the community don't mind opposing viewpoint. We do however, like a pilot to have some actual experience with what we do before expressing that opinion too loudly :-) If this doesn't answer what you keep "demanding" than you will just have to get by on whatever floats your boat. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z's please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet |
#42
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"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message ... Dear Dudley, I notice that you only reply to the few parts of messages of which you FEEL to have the right on your side. Any other parts of the message you just leave unanswered. To me it is clear that you are only shouting your opinion, and are not ready to discuss the arguments that are put forward by anybody. I call that ignorant. I believe I've made my point about both you and your site quite clear. I've freely engaged all comers on the issues both pro and con as they have come up. As for avoiding dialog, I'll be happy to engage you on any comment you wish to make. Go on; make your case! Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired |
#43
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All right, I'll put it to you as straight forward as possible:
How can you be a demonstration pilot and object to people shooting and shearing photos and videos of your actions, even if these include ultimate ****-ups resulting in many casualties ? I'm very curious about your reply ! Iwan "Dudley Henriques" schreef in bericht ink.net... "Iwan Bogels" wrote in message ... Dear Dudley, I notice that you only reply to the few parts of messages of which you FEEL to have the right on your side. Any other parts of the message you just leave unanswered. To me it is clear that you are only shouting your opinion, and are not ready to discuss the arguments that are put forward by anybody. I call that ignorant. I believe I've made my point about both you and your site quite clear. I've freely engaged all comers on the issues both pro and con as they have come up. As for avoiding dialog, I'll be happy to engage you on any comment you wish to make. Go on; make your case! Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired |
#44
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"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message ... All right, I'll put it to you as straight forward as possible: How can you be a demonstration pilot and object to people shooting and shearing photos and videos of your actions, even if these include ultimate ****-ups resulting in many casualties ? I'm very curious about your reply ! Iwan In the demonstration community we have no objection whatsoever to crash video being used for the purpose of crash investigation or news reporting. These things relate directly to the issues of flight safety. Where on earth did you get the idea we objected to video being used in this manner...surely not from me. I've stated this quite clearly in prior posts. As for the "****ups"; yes, they happen unfortunately, and when they do, it's good to have a filmed record of the event.... which equates completely with my above comment. In fact, we in the community encourage filming of events for just this purpose. The photographers that take these pictures however, don't push them on the net as you are doing, as entertainment, with no news value or safety connection associated with that effort. Next! |
#45
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Well Dudley,
In that case you could have simply written: "I hate it when people spread aviation crash videos for other purpose than aviation safety issues". It would have saved you a lot of unnecessary discussion. As you will have understood, I see things a little differently. Having witnessed a major aircraft crash in which 70 people got killed because a demonstration pilot misjudged the situation, I use it for other purposes. I hope more people are willing to share their crash video footage with me, and I will continue to share it with other people via my website. Furthermore I will keep announcing the video wepage at the newsgroups where people might have an extra interest in viewing my videos. That would best serve my personal purpose. People can download the videos at http://www.dappa.nl-crash.htm and use it for safety issues, viewing pleasure, collecting purposes or whatever other goal they have. I won't judge them for the reason they look at it. Iwan "Dudley Henriques" schreef in bericht ink.net... "Iwan Bogels" wrote in message ... All right, I'll put it to you as straight forward as possible: How can you be a demonstration pilot and object to people shooting and shearing photos and videos of your actions, even if these include ultimate ****-ups resulting in many casualties ? I'm very curious about your reply ! Iwan In the demonstration community we have no objection whatsoever to crash video being used for the purpose of crash investigation or news reporting. These things relate directly to the issues of flight safety. Where on earth did you get the idea we objected to video being used in this manner...surely not from me. I've stated this quite clearly in prior posts. As for the "****ups"; yes, they happen unfortunately, and when they do, it's good to have a filmed record of the event.... which equates completely with my above comment. In fact, we in the community encourage filming of events for just this purpose. The photographers that take these pictures however, don't push them on the net as you are doing, as entertainment, with no news value or safety connection associated with that effort. Next! |
#46
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Iwan Bogels wrote:
People can download the videos at LOL! Dead link... -- Peter |
#47
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Well, not 20 seconds ago.....presh "refresh" , because you might have the
old link in your cash.... :-) Iwan "Peter R." schreef in bericht ... Iwan Bogels wrote: People can download the videos at LOL! Dead link... -- Peter |
#48
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#49
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I really prefer reading top posts.
;-/ mike regish "Jim Rosinski" wrote in message om... Top-posting, bottom-posting. Who gives a damn? Jim Rosinski N3825Q |
#50
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Like you're not answering this one?
:-) mike regish "Dudley Henriques" wrote in message news:S1P_c.7159 This, and your other post to me asking continuisly for an explanation of my objections to the specific context of crash videos being discussed in this thread are a perfect example of why I don't answer posts like yours. |
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