Stupid Question

Crash Lander wrote:
I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That leaves the whole
'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to fudging doesn't it?
Crash Lander

Possibly, but as others have pointed out, it's hard for someone to
significantly falsify their log book and not get caught eventually - if
those hours are actually used as a basis for something. For example, a
pilot with a few hundred hours in a little Cessna 172 could claim
thousands of hours in MD-80's and A340's - but as soon as he applied
for a job and went into the simulator... well, you get the idea.

So it does happen (pilots used to talk about logging "P-51" time; the
P-51 Mustang being a piston fighter everyone wanted to fly, but in
reality referring to only having access to the "Parker P-51" fountain
pen to write the entry in the log book G). Rarely does it happen
such that you actually wind up with a truly unqualified pilot at the
controls of an aircraft because he fudged the hours.

NOW - as to the hours and types of aircraft a pilot may CLAIM to have
flown, when he's at the bar and trying to pick up the sweet young thing
on the stool next to him... Well, that's another matter entirely!
{:) [These tales traditionally start with the words, "There I
was..."]

It is something that I would never ever do myself. It was just one of those
things I never knew about. I don't have my PPL yet, but will be starting
sometime later this year, and just wondered how it was recorded.
Thanks.
Crash Lander

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Jim Macklin" wrote

It is also grounds to revoke all certificates held.

To the original poster:

I think you can see, from the responses, that there are too many really
"bad
things" that can result from fudging your logbook. The possibility of
being
caught is certainly not worth the possible gain that could result from
having more hours. Very few people would have a situation where just a
few
hours would help, and fudging a lot is too obvious to get away with.

It is way too easy for someone to catch you. Also, one thing nobody
mentioned is, you write down the aircraft along with the hours in your
logbook. If it is a rental, or working hours, all you have to do is go
back
to the airplane's records, and see if you are written down as having been
the pilot on the dates you said in your logbook.
--
Jim in NC

LOL! Must remember that! "There I was...!" right after I check that the wife
isn't around! LOL!
Crash Lander

"jmk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Crash Lander wrote:
I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That leaves the whole
'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to fudging doesn't
it?
Crash Lander

Possibly, but as others have pointed out, it's hard for someone to
significantly falsify their log book and not get caught eventually - if
those hours are actually used as a basis for something. For example, a
pilot with a few hundred hours in a little Cessna 172 could claim
thousands of hours in MD-80's and A340's - but as soon as he applied
for a job and went into the simulator... well, you get the idea.

So it does happen (pilots used to talk about logging "P-51" time; the
P-51 Mustang being a piston fighter everyone wanted to fly, but in
reality referring to only having access to the "Parker P-51" fountain
pen to write the entry in the log book G). Rarely does it happen
such that you actually wind up with a truly unqualified pilot at the
controls of an aircraft because he fudged the hours.

NOW - as to the hours and types of aircraft a pilot may CLAIM to have
flown, when he's at the bar and trying to pick up the sweet young thing
on the stool next to him... Well, that's another matter entirely!
{:) [These tales traditionally start with the words, "There I
was..."]

The ratios of time in type and conditions often catch the
liars.

Those bar room tales often start with, " I used to fly for
the CIA, I'd tell you more about it, but then I'd have to
kill you."


One thing you'll likely never see in a pilot's logbook...
Jan3,2009 CE208B stolen at SAT round trip to Mexicalli,
2000 pounds dope, 5 hours X-C 3 hours IMC, no flight plan,
N12345xxx , unless the pilot is really stupid and wants the
turbine for an airline job.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


"jmk" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Crash Lander wrote:
| I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That
leaves the whole
| 'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to
fudging doesn't it?
| Crash Lander
|
| Possibly, but as others have pointed out, it's hard for
someone to
| significantly falsify their log book and not get caught
eventually - if
| those hours are actually used as a basis for something.
For example, a
| pilot with a few hundred hours in a little Cessna 172
could claim
| thousands of hours in MD-80's and A340's - but as soon as
he applied
| for a job and went into the simulator... well, you get the
idea.
|
| So it does happen (pilots used to talk about logging
"P-51" time; the
| P-51 Mustang being a piston fighter everyone wanted to
fly, but in
| reality referring to only having access to the "Parker
P-51" fountain
| pen to write the entry in the log book G). Rarely does
it happen
| such that you actually wind up with a truly unqualified
pilot at the
| controls of an aircraft because he fudged the hours.
|
| NOW - as to the hours and types of aircraft a pilot may
CLAIM to have
| flown, when he's at the bar and trying to pick up the
sweet young thing
| on the stool next to him... Well, that's another matter
entirely!
| {:) [These tales traditionally start with the words,
"There I
| was..."]
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote

It is also grounds to revoke all certificates held.

To the original poster:

I think you can see, from the responses, that there are too many really "bad
things" that can result from fudging your logbook. The possibility of being
caught is certainly not worth the possible gain that could result from
having more hours. Very few people would have a situation where just a few
hours would help, and fudging a lot is too obvious to get away with.

It is way too easy for someone to catch you. Also, one thing nobody
mentioned is, you write down the aircraft along with the hours in your
logbook. If it is a rental, or working hours, all you have to do is go back
to the airplane's records, and see if you are written down as having been
the pilot on the dates you said in your logbook.
--
Jim in NC

Crash Lander wrote:
When pilots quote how many hours they have logged, is this a personal log
that is kept, or is every hour you fly entered into a national registry and
formally kept?
Crash Lander


The closest that comes to a national databse is that the NTSB can go
pull the medical applications and application for ratings (where you
self declare your hours).

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
When pilots quote how many hours they have logged, is this a personal log
that is kept, or is every hour you fly entered into a national registry
and formally kept?

It's a personal log. But if the FAA has reason to be suspicious, they may
often be able to cross-check. Almost everyone does their primary training
in either rented or military planes; in either case, there's an
independent record of the planes' usage. At more advanced levels, pilots
who fly for airliners or some other commerical operators will likewise
generate an independent record of their flight hours. In between, though,
there are pilots who use their own planes for personal flying; those
flight hours would be harder to verify.

--Gary


I once spoke to an owner who said that his way of controlling maintenance
costs was, "If he didn't log the flight, then the aircraft didn't either."

Its just like your taxes. The feds ask you for your times every once in
awhile (like during your medical) and you have to sign that the facts
are correct.

-Robert


Crash Lander wrote:
I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That leaves the whole
'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to fudging doesn't it?
Crash Lander

Plus if your logs show 5000 hours in your aircraft the feds can always
ask to look at the aircraft log books. If its in a rental aircraft the
FBO will certainly have logs of it. It would probably be easy to
overstate things by 10% but it wouldn't buy you enough to risk it.
Overstating more than that would start to get easier to check.

There is the famous story (or legend) of a guy shownig up for his
multi-ATP ride with lots of multiengine time. The examiner looks
through his log book and see the N number for the multi-engine plane is
that same as the plane parked on the ramp, which just happens to be
owned by the examiner!

-Robert


Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That leaves the whole
'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to fudging doesn't it?
Crash Lander

Yes. I have a flight that I never logged - and probably never will. I
have my reasons.

However logging extra hours - well - while you're doing your training,
you'll be doing so presumably with the one organisation. So this is
easily cross-checked (as well as very foolhardy IMO). Indeed it will be
the only easy way to rebuild your logbook if you lose it.

--
Duncan

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Did he have an "on/off" switch on his tach? How did he manage that??

-Robert


Private wrote:
I once spoke to an owner who said that his way of controlling maintenance
costs was, "If he didn't log the flight, then the aircraft didn't either."


One trick an instructor showed me... cut the master switch off. The
engine keeps running... and no time logged.