Another ownership question

I've searched through the archives, and there is a lot of useful information
there concerning buying and affording an airplane. My question,
specifically, is this: If I bought a 1977-ish Cessna 172 that is IFR
equipped with a low time engine for, say, around $45,000, can I beat the
rental cost ($77/hr) over the course of a year flying 150-200 hrs a year?
(The purchase price is based on looking through aso.com at $50K asking
price- surely the asking price is not going to be the selling price?)

The answer my research in r.a.o seems to yield is "maybe", and anything less
than 150 hrs would be "no". I fly for enjoyment, and even though I am a
woman I don't mind tinkering around with things; an airplane would obviously
involve a lot of tinkering

TIA-

Wendy

There are a lot of variables, but it usually works out that the "break even"
point between owning and renting is around 150-200 hours/yr. But if you can
fly 100 hours or more, the costs are close enough that the overwhelming
benefits of ownership (predictability, scheduling, flexibility, pride, etc.)
make it a great way to go, provided you want and have the extra time to
spend managing the ownership aspects (maintenance, keeping it clean,
paperwork, etc.).

Below 100-hours, ownership really doesn't make economic sense so I advise
people flying the typical 50 or 75 hours per year to try and find a 2- or
3-way partnership.

- Mark

Good lord, I hope Margy Natalie doesn't get ahold of this. "even though"?? I'm
not sure what being a woman has to do with liking to tinker. Some of them even
get tinker's licenses from Sammy Unkle.

Jim


"Wendy"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

I fly for enjoyment, and even though I am a
-woman I don't mind tinkering around with things
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
news

Good lord, I hope Margy Natalie doesn't get ahold of this. "even
though"?? I'm
not sure what being a woman has to do with liking to tinker. Some of them
even
get tinker's licenses from Sammy Unkle.

Jim

Good point I spent a few years in the Caribbean on boats- I didn't care
much for the tinkering initially but after a while it got kinda interesting.
Except for the toilets. That never got interesting.

Wendy

Some very good comments so far.

A couple of other items for consideration. If your use requires overnight
or multiple days, by owning you won't have "minimums per day" costs. For me
that discouraged renting and paying for an aircraft while it sets.

Another one, is if after a year or so, if it isn't getting the flying time
for break even, you can always consider a co-ownership at that time and sell
1/2 of it. You would be in a good position, as you wouldn't have to rush
into it and could be selective on whom you sell to. Over the long term, a
well maintained used aircraft will usually appreciate. For example, in
1984, when I was considering starting a co-ownership, the local college was
selling their 1976 C172 for $10,000. It was nicely equipped, as they used
it for IFR/Commercial training, but was getting high time on the engine and
the interior was showing its wear. Today $40,000?

Good luck and enjoy.


"Wendy" wrote in message
rvers.com...
I've searched through the archives, and there is a lot of useful
information
there concerning buying and affording an airplane. My question,
specifically, is this: If I bought a 1977-ish Cessna 172 that is IFR
equipped with a low time engine for, say, around $45,000, can I beat the
rental cost ($77/hr) over the course of a year flying 150-200 hrs a year?
(The purchase price is based on looking through aso.com at $50K asking
price- surely the asking price is not going to be the selling price?)

The answer my research in r.a.o seems to yield is "maybe", and anything
less
than 150 hrs would be "no". I fly for enjoyment, and even though I am a
woman I don't mind tinkering around with things; an airplane would
obviously
involve a lot of tinkering

TIA-

Wendy

Wendy--

there are two answers -- one very quantitative and based on rental vs
usage cost. Then there's the qualitative answer which will usually
take priority. Owning the aircraft means it's always available (unless
it's in the shop), you know exactly who's been flying it and how,
and it's always fun to watch the reaction on non-pilots faces (even
funnier on men!) when you admit to owning an airplane.

And you never have to worry about getting home from a trip because
the airplane is reserved by someone else.

"markjen" wrote:

There are a lot of variables, but it usually works out that the "break even"
point between owning and renting is around 150-200 hours/yr.

For my 1972 Skyhawk, the break-even point has been around 90-100
hours/yr, counting the value of my own fairly unskilled labor as zero.
That's with a pretty cheap hangar ($135/mo), reliable plane
(unscheduled maintenance has usually been avionics), and cheap
insurance ($700/yr). It does include an engine reserve. Beat-up
172's are renting for around $85/hr wet where I live.

Jim Rosinski
N3825Q

("Wendy" wrote)
The answer my research in r.a.o seems to yield is "maybe", and anything
less
than 150 hrs would be "no". I fly for enjoyment, and even though I am a
woman I don't mind tinkering around with things; an airplane would
obviously
involve a lot of tinkering


Someone else (or two) helping split the fixed costs might mean you wouldn't
have to fly 100 hrs to break even vs renting. I think I read 3 people on a
non-money pit 172 = (about) 75 hrs vs renting. That's only 6 hours per
month before you pass the break even point.

--
Montblack

Wendy wrote:

If I bought a 1977-ish Cessna 172 that is IFR
equipped with a low time engine for, say, around $45,000, can I beat the
rental cost ($77/hr) over the course of a year flying 150-200 hrs a year?

If you ignore the potential income from the money you used to buy the plane,
yes, you can. I recommend this, since the "potential income" on my investments
ran about negative 60% over the last few years.

George Patterson
The actions taken by the New Hampshire Episcopalians (ie. inducting a gay
bishop) are an affront to Christians everywhere. I am just thankful that
the church's founder, Henry VIII, and his wife Catherine of Aragon, and his
wife Anne Boleyn, and his wife Jane Seymour, and his wife Anne of Cleves,
and his wife Katherine Howard, and his wife Catherine Parr are no longer
here to suffer through this assault on traditional Christian marriages.

There is some working data on buying, groups, and renting on my website at
http://www.macinnisaviation.com/handy.htm

I have a spreadsheet that might be handy too, let me know if you want it.

Beautiful part about older (but serviceable) airplanes, is that they
actually *appreciate* in value.

Cheers

Duane
++++++++++++++
Duane MacInnis PE
Flight Instructor
Cell (604) 454-7415
www.macinnisaviation.com

Grumman Cheetah C-GVJF






"Wendy" wrote in message
rvers.com...
I've searched through the archives, and there is a lot of useful
information
there concerning buying and affording an airplane. My question,
specifically, is this: If I bought a 1977-ish Cessna 172 that is IFR
equipped with a low time engine for, say, around $45,000, can I beat the
rental cost ($77/hr) over the course of a year flying 150-200 hrs a year?
(The purchase price is based on looking through aso.com at $50K asking
price- surely the asking price is not going to be the selling price?)

The answer my research in r.a.o seems to yield is "maybe", and anything
less
than 150 hrs would be "no". I fly for enjoyment, and even though I am a
woman I don't mind tinkering around with things; an airplane would
obviously
involve a lot of tinkering

TIA-

Wendy