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U.K. near-midairs
"Jack" wrote in message om... "Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs in the second half of last year, safety investigators said recently, noting that newer models fly at high altitudes without transponders and are hard to see, both visually and on radar...." http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600 e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!! Peter. |
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Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote:
"Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs The difference between a mid-air and a near-midair is certainly an interesting topic. While in contact with ATC in busy airspace I've frequently had jittery airline FOs call me as threatening traffic over a mile away. I'd guess if you're an airline guy and you see ANY aircraft, and it wasn't on your TCAS, you'd just automatically call it a near-midair. In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. I know of lots and lots of talk about near-midairs, and significant pressure by the airlines to require transponders in more ways. Can we blame them? The FIRST mid-air could result in hundreds of deaths... So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach. I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders in gliders is a solution looking for a problem. Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)? in the second half of last year, safety investigators said recently, noting that newer models fly at high altitudes without transponders and are hard to see, both visually and on radar...." http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600 e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!! Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider. These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least some info... I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
#3
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Mark James Boyd wrote:
In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. You might want to ask Chip Garner about the A-7 that ate 3 feet of one of his wings. There have been a few others between airplanes and gliders, in the US and away from airports... Marc |
#4
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Mark James Boyd wrote:
Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)? I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999. http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of airspace has been changed from class E to class D. Stefan |
#5
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"Stefan" wrote in message ... Mark James Boyd wrote: Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)? I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999. http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of airspace has been changed from class E to class D. Stefan Some years ago a pilot was taking his young son for a ride in a 2-32. There was a BANG and the 2-32 was knocked into a spin. After recovery, nothing seemed amiss. Later on landing one wing wheel assembly was missing. The missing wing wheel assembly was found imbedded in the leading edge of an F4 at the local AFB. Bill Daniels |
#6
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"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:41a63818$1@darkstar... Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote: "Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. How hard have you looked? Ask Chip Gardner how far he was from an airport when he got hit. So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach. I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders in gliders is a solution looking for a problem. A few years ago an AmericaWest airliner 30 miles out of Phoenix nearly hit a glider. A flight attendant had her leg broken during the rapid evasive manuever. |
#7
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Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider. These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least some info... I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd I wasn't thinking about the big jets but the person in the PA28 etc. who uses our NDB as a turning point at 2000 ft. The beacon is in the middle of the airfield we use as our gliding club base. The area is marked as an area of intense gliding activity and the airfield is marked with cables. We've had a couple of near thing over the airfield. Peter. |
#8
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you know you are close.. when you can hear the other powerplane go by you..
and you have not seen it.. and when you do find him after he's past.. you realize that the sun angles as he approached you.. he never saw you either.. BT "Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:41a63818$1@darkstar... Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote: "Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs The difference between a mid-air and a near-midair is certainly an interesting topic. While in contact with ATC in busy airspace I've frequently had jittery airline FOs call me as threatening traffic over a mile away. I'd guess if you're an airline guy and you see ANY aircraft, and it wasn't on your TCAS, you'd just automatically call it a near-midair. In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. I know of lots and lots of talk about near-midairs, and significant pressure by the airlines to require transponders in more ways. Can we blame them? The FIRST mid-air could result in hundreds of deaths... So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach. I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders in gliders is a solution looking for a problem. Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)? in the second half of last year, safety investigators said recently, noting that newer models fly at high altitudes without transponders and are hard to see, both visually and on radar...." http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600 e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!! Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider. These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least some info... I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
#9
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At 20:30 25 November 2004, Mark James Boyd wrote:
Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider. These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least some info... I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd Boating stores sell radar reflectors made of cardboard and covered with aluminum foil. They are in three parts and can be disassembled. When put together they make a sphere about 12-14 inches across and they provide the 3D right triangles that are supposed to reflect a signal back. I inquired about their use in gliders (practically no weight and could go in fuselage behind wing) and someone told me they would not give a strong enough signal for aircraft use owing to the speeds involved. I have no idea about the validity of this statement. Couldn't hurt to try it. |
#10
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On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:17:14 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote: "Stefan" wrote in message ... Mark James Boyd wrote: Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)? I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999. http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of airspace has been changed from class E to class D. Stefan Some years ago a pilot was taking his young son for a ride in a 2-32. There was a BANG and the 2-32 was knocked into a spin. After recovery, nothing seemed amiss. Later on landing one wing wheel assembly was missing. The missing wing wheel assembly was found imbedded in the leading edge of an F4 at the local AFB. That would be Donn Shearn, in 1975. The F4 was being vectored onto the COS localizer, slow, nose up, pilot seat cranked down behind the glareshield, and the pilot never knew he'd hit anything until a ground crewman ponted to the wheel as he taxied in. A busload of Air Force officers arrived at BFGP two days later to investigate, and the first thing they saw was CSA's 1-34, N1171S, crashing in the trees at the north end. I watched that one too...worst case of thought processes stopping under pressure you could imagine. The guy hit thirty feet up a tree a good 200 yards short of the runway, with at least 3/4 spoiler on. Anyway, the gubmint finally wrote a check for $94 to replace the wheel three years later. rj |
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