Owning more expensive than renting

Matt Barrow wrote:

If we drove once every six months using Hertz might make sense.

Exactly. During that unfortunate period in my life when I was living in
Philadelphia, I drove once every few months. I rented.

- Andrew

Matt Barrow wrote:

Let's have a show of hands from all those who drive a Hertz (okay...Budget)
rental car instead of your owned/leased vehicle?

We rent one every time we need to travel more than about 100 miles. It's sort of
the opposite of airplane rentals. We own high-mileage vehicles that aren't real
comfortable (read "small") on trips. That's great for local driving but not so
hot for a drive to (say) Tennessee with a load of luggage.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

I tried a detailed analysis of this once and it turned me off owning,
atleast for now. What many do not figure into the calculations of costs is
the lost of investment capital of the purchase and depreciation. If you are
a reasonably good investor, this loss of capital is not going to be
insignificant. Even if you put it into bonds, it will depend on the
original purchase price. Sure, if you get a 152, it is not going to matter
much. If you are planning to get a nice Seneca II or 172SP, things are
going to be different. Once I put all costs into the equation a used 172SP
would set me back +$20,000 usd per year. That is alot of rental hours
indeed. Of course, the the pride of owning offsets this costs for many new
owners. Then the novelty wears off and the financial burnden comes into
play. On the psychological side, the stress of responsabilities of
ownership are not to be discounted either. For the moment, I would rather
just pay my dues, not worry about maintenance (hide my head in the sand) and
fly a different plane once in a while.

Tien

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:76Zwd.103$iD.7@fed1read05...
a study at one time showed that the break even point for most light
singles.. was closer to 400 hours per year

Fixed costs per hour get reduce with more hours flown, insurance,
hanger/tiedown, financing (financing also includes cost of $ lost if not
invested elsewhere).

Variable costs, fuel, engine maint fund, oil, replaceable items like tires
etc, does not necessarily vary with additional hours flown.

BT

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ODWwd.591568$D%.397211@attbi_s51...
Well I have only been an airplane owner for a few months but so far
owning is more expensive than renting. I must say that the convenience
of
having your own airplane to go to when ever you want is worth a few
bucks. Has anyone found owning more expensive than renting? :-)

Owning is always more expensive than renting, until you get to a high
number of hours flown annually.

The old "100 hours per year break-even point" is about right -- until
you
do a major interior upgrade, or replace a cylinder. Than *poof* --
renting looks mighty fine. I'd bet the "real" break-even point (over
time) is closer to 150 hours per year.

But you're right -- owning is worth every penny.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 19-Dec-2004, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

Now I'm looking for all weather capability, thinking of a turbo-prop.
We're putting together two projects to build a total 55 houses in two
towns....more than we now build in a year. Budget looks like $9.75M.
There's usually three or four of us that have to travel together, 550nm
and 600nm
.
Any suggestions?


Nice problem to have! Sounds like the ideal mission profile for a single
turboprop (Meridian, TBM-700, PC-12), or maybe a Malibu Mirage. However,
either of the Pipers might have a problem making a 600 nm trip nonstop with
4 aboard against a strong headwind and with IFR reserves.
--
-Elliott Drucker

ok, i have re-read this whole thread and i can't see where anyone is
baking-in the value of the asset gained in the buy/rent discussions.
i'm not too far from buying my first (and probably last, i'm gettin
close to 60 years old and already retired) plane and the kinds of
planes i'm looking at quit depreciating a long time ago. yes, you've
got engine time and a list of different types of expenses that would
drive an enron accountant crazy but, end of the day, you do have an
asset. in my brief experience, it looks like the little planes are
holding value and may be appreciating some. not enough to offset
engine use-cost but some. meanwhile, someone here pointed me at the
c-140 and those are looking mighty interesting. 140A especially but
maybe a 152 would be smarter.this is fun to wory about anyway.

dan

Curious as to why no soap and water. The paint is probably some
polyeurethane (Imron etc...) so it wouldn't be hurt. JK

Water sprayed under pressure gets into all sorts of areas you DON'T want it,
both on motorcycles and airplanes.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You obviously don't get your cars or airplane very dirty. Washing off mud
or any amount of dirt with Pledge and a diaper would make a great abrasive
that would trash your paint in short order. Vehicles should always be
washed with lots of water prior to touching the surface with a sponge or
cloth. Soap helps loosen the dirt and avoid scratches, but water alone
does a pretty good job. Never take a cloth to a dry and dirty painted or
plexus surface.

You're correct -- our plane never has a chance to get dirty. We (the whole
family) wipe it down after every flight with Pledge and diapers.

I get the left leading edge, cowling and wheel pant.

Mary gets the right leading edge, and beer/pop.

My son gets the empennage

My daughter gets the main gear wheel pants.

The procedure is:

a) Push Atlas into the hangar
b) Spray our respective surfaces with Pledge
c) Crack a cold one
d) Half way through aforementioned cold one (or, at this time of year, hot
chocolate) wipe down our respective surfaces.

We usually fly twice a week, and the plane is always immaculate.

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 02:08:46 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

You're correct -- our plane never has a chance to get dirty. We (the whole
family) wipe it down after every flight with Pledge and diapers.

I get the left leading edge, cowling and wheel pant.

Mary gets the right leading edge, and beer/pop.
What about the rest of the wing?

My son gets the empennage
Does this include the belly?

My daughter gets the main gear wheel pants.

What about the horizonta and vertical stabilizors and rudder?

Not picking, but it seems like you'd need to wash the rest of it at
some point.

z

Jay Honeck wrote:
You obviously don't get your cars or airplane very dirty. Washing off mud
or any amount of dirt with Pledge and a diaper would make a great abrasive
that would trash your paint in short order. Vehicles should always be
washed with lots of water prior to touching the surface with a sponge or
cloth. Soap helps loosen the dirt and avoid scratches, but water alone
does a pretty good job. Never take a cloth to a dry and dirty painted or
plexus surface.


You're correct -- our plane never has a chance to get dirty. We (the whole
family) wipe it down after every flight with Pledge and diapers.

Flying on paved strips only helps a lot. My airplane was based on a
grass/dirt strip for several years and pledge and a diaper just wouldn't
cut it! Likewise, I have a 1700' gravel driveway and my cars definitely
need a water bath before washing or I'd have my paint ground away in a
few washings.


Matt

I've been reasonably happy with Dry Wash N Guard... Enough so that I
quit using Pledge a few years back...

http://www.dri-waterless-car-wash.com/

The devil is in the details, of course...
Start with the 32 oz. with the pump sprayer to see if you like it...
Shake it WELL before decanting or using - and after you have it shaken
(not stirred), then shake it for double the time you thought was
adequate... There are some 50 ingredients in it and some settle out...
After the 32 oz. bottle gets low then the 64 oz. jug is good...

Oh yeah... On the pump sprayer, do NOT tighten the cap crushing the
O-ring seal, as this dents the O-ring and it eventually stops holding
pressure... Gently screw the cap down until you can just feel the
O-ring start to add drag, then add about one ounce of torque beyond
that... My O-ring on the pump is 4 years old and still going strong -
guys who just have to torque it down until it jams and the bottle
starts to distort will be lucky to get a few weeks out of the 0-ring
(gotta stop them leaks doancha know)...

It looks pricey but goes a long, long ways... ymmv, bni, sar, etc.
Denny