Almost Taken to the cleaners!

On 22 Sep 2006 13:15:19 -0700, "wise purchaser"
wrote:

Am I wrong or out of line in this matter??


You are not wrong. I know someone trying to sell a completely
overhauled 172 for 40 who is having trouble. New paint, overhauled
engine, instrument panel, interior, and instruments all new and/or
overhauled depending on original condition. A very meticulous
mechanic. 28,000 dollars for a run out 150 isn't realistic.

HTH,
z

Dave Butler wrote:
wise purchaser wrote:


WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
tto no value to the basic airplane!

Vref and the Trade-A-Plane evaluator notoriously give inflated values
for airplanes. Without knowing the particulars of this individual case,
I'd say there's a good chance those values are *still* above fair market
value.



Its also regional. On the West coast you'll usually pay more than Vref
as that is what the market is doing. Lots of great deals on the East
coast (especially Florida).

-Robert

Whats there to go nuts over. You offer what you want to pay. He asks for
what he wants. If the two numbers are close enough you may have a deal..
if they aren't, he just has to say no.. and you move on.

No drama required.

Dave

wise purchaser wrote:
Grreetings!!

I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
run out engine. over 2100 hrs.

they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.

Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
the plane for $ 28,000

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
tto no value to the basic airplane!

When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
has had others say the same bad news)

I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
FAIR price for his plane.

Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!

I think my offer of $ 18,000 dollars CASH was more than fair for the
plane. that's $ 4500 bucks over the Vref and NAAA value.

PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
-offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!

THANK GOD for V ref & trade a plane NAAA as I would have paid the
$ 28, grand give or take!

P.S. The BEST price that I got for and Overhaul is $ 9,000 grand using
the existing I engine.

On 22 Sep 2006 13:15:19 -0700, "wise purchaser"
wrote:


WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
tto no value to the basic airplane!

When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
has had others say the same bad news)


Vref seems to give inflated prices. I don't understand why you would offer
him $5,000 MORE than Vref.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

In article .com,
"wise purchaser" wrote:

[snip]
Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
the plane for $ 28,000

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !
[snip]

As others have said, vref always seems high.

However, I'd like to point out something that changed with vref. I don't
know when they did it, but when I went to vref this past week, it no longer
adds value for radios like an extra KX-155, or an ADF, or a DME. Vref
is much more realistic in the items to add value. No value for "old
technology" like a second radio, but finally adds value for things like
engine upgrades.

For my cherokee 140, vref previously returned a value of more than $53,000
(with no credit for the 160hp STC). Now it's just a little more than $50,000,
with credit for the 160hp STC, low TT (2415), and low engine time (100 SMOH).
Probably still too high in today's market, but more realistic.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

wise purchaser wrote:
Grreetings!!

I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
[snip]

Where are you located?

You should also start seeing as many airplanes as you can of the type
you want. I didn't start to get a feel for prices and quality until I
had visited 4 or 5 airplanes and owners.

Now to your particular question, I'm no expert in C150 values, but for
damn sure a C150 with 2100 hours on the engine is worth $15K tops, and
as others have said, probably less. A C150 is not Sport Airplane
qualified so doesn't gain value there, and an engine rebuild from a
good shop with a good reputation is going to run, what, $12K-$15K?

As for the owner's reaction, that doesn't surprise me. Walk away from
that one and keep looking. And I'll add, you really should do some
more preparation. You state you initially thought $28K was a good
price...please...that's nowhere near correct.

--
I've finally learned what "upward compatible" means. It means we get
to keep all our old mistakes.
Dennie van Tassel

"DT" == Dan Thomas writes:
DT I briefly had the use of a 1967 Aircoupe (the final
DT version of the Ercoupe), and with its 90-hp engine it
DT outperformed the 150 in just about every way. Shorter takeoff,
DT faster climb, faster cruise. Slips were lousy (it had rudder
DT pedals but ineffective rudders) and it wasn't very
DT comfortable, but it used that 90 hp much more efficiently than
DT the 150 uses its 100 horses.

This is very true. I have a '65 Alon Aircoupe, quite similar to the
model you describe. It cruises just 3-5 kts slower than a C172 and
climbout performance is not bad at all on a cool day with just the
pilot.
--
Programmers are in a race with the Universe to create bigger and
better idiot-proof programs, while the Universe is trying to create
bigger and better idiots. So far the Universe is winning.
Anon

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:51:17 -0600, Newps wrote:



Ben Jackson wrote:



Well, did you make him an offer for $10k more first? I'd be ****ed if
someone negotiated with me and then chopped 1/3rd off their offer.

But if you're not in the ballpark as a seller to start with you better
have thick skin.

Why would I need a thick skin? If the person on the other end can
present their case in a professional and calm manner I'll listen. If
they can't even if they are willing to meet my price I hang up.

Sure, I'd sell the Deb which is the oldest of its type in existence
for a slightly exorbitant price which means the purchaser would need
to want it more than I do. Always stored inside, but still needs
paint. After a 1000 hours the upholstery looks pretty good but still
needs work, the engine only has a few hundred to TBO and doesn't even
require adding oil between changes, and the radios are elaborate for
their time, but that was a long time ago.:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
...

Why would I need a thick skin? If the person on the other end can
present their case in a professional and calm manner I'll listen. If
they can't even if they are willing to meet my price I hang up.

Sure, I'd sell the Deb which is the oldest of its type in existence
for a slightly exorbitant price which means the purchaser would need
to want it more than I do.

Hmmm...Roger, you just stated the basis of the Austrian school of Economics
(Free Market, now most commonly known as the Chicago School).
Buyers/Sellers, employers/employees, it all fits.