US Tasking? Are way too many TATs/MATs are being called vs. NOTENOUGH ASSIGNED TASKS (3% in 2013)

it's a challenge accomodating a dry LS-3 or LS-4 as well as a watered JS-1C on the same task without using big circles.

and "what John said"

They kinda are complaining when they text me photo's of the tasks with frowny faces... I agree that pilots should voice their disgust at the pilots meeting. Perhaps the culture of the CD, task advisors, etc is too stogy for most new pilots to want to express their concern? I think most pilots assume the CD and task advisors are doing the right thing. Perhaps they are wrong.

So, in this case, it is obviously not the weather that resulted in the 3 massive 30 mile radius Turn Area task, nor is it the handicap range (LS-3 or Discus is lowest I think). So, what guidelines were being followed that resulted in this call of 3 turn areas with 60 MILE DIAMETERS??? Do we, perhaps, need to adjust those guidelines in order to return to a reasonable balance or ATs vs. TAT/MATs?

I refer back to the title of this thread.

US Tasking? Are way to many TATs/MATs being called vs. NOT ENOUGH ASSIGNED TSASKS (3% in 2013)

Is the assigned task truly dead in the USA? Why? Per Noel, "what are contest task supposed to me measuring?" Objective racing skill or pure weather luck in which massive swings in conditions are the primary factor?

Isn't calling one giant TAT for 3 classes on a good flying day a little "lazy?" Again, I am fine with a TAT if the compromise is required (weather, handicap range, etc), but aren't racing tasks preferred when the conditions are suitable for it?

Sean

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 3:57:31 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
They kinda are complaining when they text me photo's of the tasks with frowny faces... I agree that pilots should voice their disgust at the pilots meeting. Perhaps the culture of the CD, task advisors, etc is too stogy for most new pilots to want to express their concern? I think most pilots assume the CD and task advisors are doing the right thing. Perhaps they are wrong.



So, in this case, it is obviously not the weather that resulted in the 3 massive 30 mile radius Turn Area task, nor is it the handicap range (LS-3 or Discus is lowest I think). So, what guidelines were being followed that resulted in this call of 3 turn areas with 60 MILE DIAMETERS??? Do we, perhaps, need to adjust those guidelines in order to return to a reasonable balance or ATs vs. TAT/MATs?



I refer back to the title of this thread.



US Tasking? Are way to many TATs/MATs being called vs. NOT ENOUGH ASSIGNED TSASKS (3% in 2013)



Is the assigned task truly dead in the USA? Why? Per Noel, "what are contest task supposed to me measuring?" Objective racing skill or pure weather luck in which massive swings in conditions are the primary factor?



Isn't calling one giant TAT for 3 classes on a good flying day a little "lazy?" Again, I am fine with a TAT if the compromise is required (weather, handicap range, etc), but aren't racing tasks preferred when the conditions are suitable for it?



Sean

Assigned task is not available for the sports class.

There is quite a speed difference between all the gliders in the contest, like I mentioned. Not unreasonable to assume a 30 mph difference between a slow dry glider and a fast glider in one of the FAI classes. that adds up to a big mileage spread over a 3:30 task.

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:57:31 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
They kinda are complaining when they text me photo's of the tasks with frowny faces... I agree that pilots should voice their disgust at the pilots meeting. Perhaps the culture of the CD, task advisors, etc is too stogy for most new pilots to want to express their concern? I think most pilots assume the CD and task advisors are doing the right thing. Perhaps they are wrong.



So, in this case, it is obviously not the weather that resulted in the 3 massive 30 mile radius Turn Area task, nor is it the handicap range (LS-3 or Discus is lowest I think). So, what guidelines were being followed that resulted in this call of 3 turn areas with 60 MILE DIAMETERS??? Do we, perhaps, need to adjust those guidelines in order to return to a reasonable balance or ATs vs. TAT/MATs?



I refer back to the title of this thread.



US Tasking? Are way to many TATs/MATs being called vs. NOT ENOUGH ASSIGNED TSASKS (3% in 2013)



Is the assigned task truly dead in the USA? Why? Per Noel, "what are contest task supposed to me measuring?" Objective racing skill or pure weather luck in which massive swings in conditions are the primary factor?



Isn't calling one giant TAT for 3 classes on a good flying day a little "lazy?" Again, I am fine with a TAT if the compromise is required (weather, handicap range, etc), but aren't racing tasks preferred when the conditions are suitable for it?



Sean

Sean I think in your latest post you are asking very good questions. Maybe the contest should be called sanctioned OLC contest. If properly named why not, but probably a good group of people showed up there to race not fly OLC and they will be disappointing and rightfully so. It is true different people prefer different tasks make tasking philosophy part of the contest description then so we know which OLC like events to avoid unless we want to fly OLC.

AK

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:57:31 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
They kinda are complaining when they text me photo's of the tasks with frowny faces... I agree that pilots should voice their disgust at the pilots meeting. Perhaps the culture of the CD, task advisors, etc is too stogy for most new pilots to want to express their concern? I think most pilots assume the CD and task advisors are doing the right thing. Perhaps they are wrong.



So, in this case, it is obviously not the weather that resulted in the 3 massive 30 mile radius Turn Area task, nor is it the handicap range (LS-3 or Discus is lowest I think). So, what guidelines were being followed that resulted in this call of 3 turn areas with 60 MILE DIAMETERS??? Do we, perhaps, need to adjust those guidelines in order to return to a reasonable balance or ATs vs. TAT/MATs?



I refer back to the title of this thread.



US Tasking? Are way to many TATs/MATs being called vs. NOT ENOUGH ASSIGNED TSASKS (3% in 2013)



Is the assigned task truly dead in the USA? Why? Per Noel, "what are contest task supposed to me measuring?" Objective racing skill or pure weather luck in which massive swings in conditions are the primary factor?



Isn't calling one giant TAT for 3 classes on a good flying day a little "lazy?" Again, I am fine with a TAT if the compromise is required (weather, handicap range, etc), but aren't racing tasks preferred when the conditions are suitable for it?



Sean

Good thing you didn't go- you'd be havin' a stroke - LOL
I do think it would be better to use more circles of smaller size, but I haven't looked at the site to see how well it would work.
But- let's return to the topic.
Forcing any particular task can have unfortunate consequences.
Example- Current WGC. They have had tough weather to work with and wisely used area tasks to get the fairest tasks they could. They have strong guidance in the rules that says they must call a minimum of 1/3 of each type of task. They called AT's on Sunday, no doubt strongly influenced by the task "guidelines" and due to to some unfortunate weather, land the entire fleet out(yes a few flew home). What got measured on that day was the willingness to accept risk flying in storms, the wisdom of having an engine to come home on, and the wisdom to not bring a glider that you spent many years building. Little else got measured in my view, but the brave got strongly rewarded.
Today(Tuesday) they had the obvious AT again, and landed 1/2 the 15M class out, and about 1/4 of the opens, including a world champion.
I don't envy the task callers, especially when they are constrained as they are.
That said, following the US task guidance which encourages a variety of tasks, make good sense to me.
I suspect the folks at R9 are having a good time and wish I was there.
UH

I might not have a stroke but I would definitely be running a mild fever with slight nausea! ;-)

Guys I am not trying to be crazy here. I just want a little more assigned tasking. Hell the Club Class wanted it and rebelled a little for it. But even in 18/15/Open Nationals it is extremely rare these days.

I don't want to lose it and hope that we can have at least 25% AT's in the future, not 3%! Racing is more fun and fairer!

Sean

Without commenting on a particular task, I humbly suggest the real problem is contest attendance - or rather the lack of it.

Asking pilots at_a_contest about task preferences is looking through the wrong end of the telescope. For meaningful data - and to grow contest flying - one should be asking those NOT attending contests what sort of tasks THEY prefer.

I suspect the answers to this hypothetical survey would range from "Those we understand." to "You won't like the answer."

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 2:03:28 PM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
Snip----
If the pilots at the contest don't like it, the pilots at the contest should complain to the task advisers and cds.

John Cochrane



On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 2:03:28 PM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
As much as I hate "races" with 30 mile cylinders, lots of pilots seem to like flying the OLC. If this is what it takes to get them to fly in sanctioned contests, so be it. The rules allow assigned tasks, short MAT, long MAT, turn areas with lots of small turns, or turn areas with huge radii. If the pilots at the contest are happy, who are we to complain, from our armchairs a thousand miles away. If the pilots at the contest don't like it, the pilots at the contest should complain to the task advisers and cds.

John Cochrane

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 5:21:51 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 3:57:31 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:

They kinda are complaining when they text me photo's of the tasks with frowny faces... I agree that pilots should voice their disgust at the pilots meeting. Perhaps the culture of the CD, task advisors, etc is too stogy for most new pilots to want to express their concern? I think most pilots assume the CD and task advisors are doing the right thing. Perhaps they are wrong.







So, in this case, it is obviously not the weather that resulted in the 3 massive 30 mile radius Turn Area task, nor is it the handicap range (LS-3 or Discus is lowest I think). So, what guidelines were being followed that resulted in this call of 3 turn areas with 60 MILE DIAMETERS??? Do we, perhaps, need to adjust those guidelines in order to return to a reasonable balance or ATs vs. TAT/MATs?







I refer back to the title of this thread.







US Tasking? Are way to many TATs/MATs being called vs. NOT ENOUGH ASSIGNED TSASKS (3% in 2013)







Is the assigned task truly dead in the USA? Why? Per Noel, "what are contest task supposed to me measuring?" Objective racing skill or pure weather luck in which massive swings in conditions are the primary factor?







Isn't calling one giant TAT for 3 classes on a good flying day a little "lazy?" Again, I am fine with a TAT if the compromise is required (weather, handicap range, etc), but aren't racing tasks preferred when the conditions are suitable for it?







Sean



Assigned task is not available for the sports class.



There is quite a speed difference between all the gliders in the contest, like I mentioned. Not unreasonable to assume a 30 mph difference between a slow dry glider and a fast glider in one of the FAI classes. that adds up to a big mileage spread over a 3:30 task.

But there's no earthly reason to give the FAI classes the same task as Sports.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 6:57:00 PM UTC-5, Evan Ludeman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 5:21:51 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 3:57:31 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:



They kinda are complaining when they text me photo's of the tasks with frowny faces... I agree that pilots should voice their disgust at the pilots meeting. Perhaps the culture of the CD, task advisors, etc is too stogy for most new pilots to want to express their concern? I think most pilots assume the CD and task advisors are doing the right thing. Perhaps they are wrong.















So, in this case, it is obviously not the weather that resulted in the 3 massive 30 mile radius Turn Area task, nor is it the handicap range (LS-3 or Discus is lowest I think). So, what guidelines were being followed that resulted in this call of 3 turn areas with 60 MILE DIAMETERS??? Do we, perhaps, need to adjust those guidelines in order to return to a reasonable balance or ATs vs. TAT/MATs?















I refer back to the title of this thread.















US Tasking? Are way to many TATs/MATs being called vs. NOT ENOUGH ASSIGNED TSASKS (3% in 2013)















Is the assigned task truly dead in the USA? Why? Per Noel, "what are contest task supposed to me measuring?" Objective racing skill or pure weather luck in which massive swings in conditions are the primary factor?















Isn't calling one giant TAT for 3 classes on a good flying day a little "lazy?" Again, I am fine with a TAT if the compromise is required (weather, handicap range, etc), but aren't racing tasks preferred when the conditions are suitable for it?















Sean







Assigned task is not available for the sports class.







There is quite a speed difference between all the gliders in the contest, like I mentioned. Not unreasonable to assume a 30 mph difference between a slow dry glider and a fast glider in one of the FAI classes. that adds up to a big mileage spread over a 3:30 task.



But there's no earthly reason to give the FAI classes the same task as Sports.



Evan Ludeman / T8

Evan,

I would tend to agree

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 5:40:02 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Without commenting on a particular task, I humbly suggest the real problem is contest attendance - or rather the lack of it.



Asking pilots at_a_contest about task preferences is looking through the wrong end of the telescope. For meaningful data - and to grow contest flying - one should be asking those NOT attending contests what sort of tasks THEY prefer.



I suspect the answers to this hypothetical survey would range from "Those we understand." to "You won't like the answer."



This has been looked at quite a bit. The most common barrier to contest participation is the same as it is for the rest of soaring- time and money.
Given that a contest requires an even greater amount of both, it is a significant hurdle for many folks.
UH