Instrument rating??

Here's my two cents...... Wait on the instrument rating.... Go out and fly
to and visit as many airports and their $100 hamburger opportunities as much
as you can. Go out and enjoy that PP-ASEL ticket! For the instrument
rating you will need a LOT of drive and determination... IMHO, I think it
helps to go out there and get lots of flying in (which will improve,,,
hopefully,,,, your flying when you are ready to start the instrument
ticket),,, then when the drive for the new challenge and learning
opportunity rears its' head... go for it!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Thanks for all the feedback. The common theme is obvious: just know
your limitations, which should go without saying anyway!

I'll still be planning on that ticket. Whether or not I go for it some
time is relevant to me at the moment because I'm looking at the purchase
of a C150 or 152 and need to decide if I need IFR cert.

The way to die, is in bed with your boots on (paraphrase) G

Naw . . . the way to die is in bed at the age of 80, shot to death
by a jealous husband. G

Nah... The way to die is in bed, at the age of 105, on the upstroke,
shot by a jealous spouse, hers! That way you get one more stroke
on the way out! :-)


Jer/



Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!

Larry Dighera wrote:

Instrument training in and of itself is a "good thing™." It will make
you a more knowledgable and professional airman.

All training is in and of itself a good thing. But then, it depends on
your priorities.

If you want to learn to be accurate in procedures, and eventually being
able to fly in IMC, then go for the IFR ticket.

If however you plan to stay a recreational VFR pilot only but aer
looking to enhance your stickj and rudder technique, then I would spend
the money in lessons of acro flying or mountain flying. You'll learn a
lot and besides, it's more fun.

Stefan

There is nothing wrong with getting an instrument rating. There is
also nothing wrong with being a VFR only pilot if you want. Decide
what's right for you.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



Paul Folbrecht wrote in message link.net...
I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??

I've heard similar statements too. They are from people who fly very
capable a/c, professionally, in practically all conditions. I think they
reflect on their level of proficiency and what it takes to maintain it at a
high level, and then have a hard time seeing how IFR can be flown in less
capable a/c but less proficient pilots. It's understandable but obviously
wrong

There's a big grain of truth behind the statement like most things said by
competent people. For example, be careful about the idea of 'hard' IFR vs
'light' IFR as in, "I don't fly 'hard' IFR but find that I can take
advantage of my rating in 'light' IFR conditions". IFR is IFR. The minute
you are engulfed in cloud, you no longer can see changes in the weather and
such. I wonder how many private pilot's first approach to minimums in
actual was 'by accident'. How many PP's first convective cell was embedded
in a benign looking overcast. Establishing personal minimums is good stuff
but it is primarily a planning task done using a forecast. And forecasts
are sometimes crap.

But more training can only be good. Go for the ticket. Most satisfying
thing I've done in a while.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Paul Folbrecht wrote:

Thoughts on this??

I heard the same from a retired 737 pilot. The way he put it was "If you
aren't
going to use it all the time, don't get an instrument rating".


George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way
that
you look forward to the trip.

Maule Driver wrote:

Establishing personal minimums is good
stuff
but it is primarily a planning task done using a forecast. And forecasts
are sometimes crap.

This is why the aircraft is also a factor. One of the motivators in my
joining the club I joined was the fact that all the airplanes are
stormscoped. It's just one more tool for the IFRing pilot.

[Plus, I expect the club to go for some type of weather up/download when a
better solution becomes available for the Garmins.]

So a consideration that can be thrown into the mix is the aircraft that will
be flown. Since the OP is planning to buy, will that aircraft be not just
legal for IFR, but something one would be comfortable flying into IFR?

- Andrew

Paul Folbrecht wrote in message link.net...

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well.

Obviously, any training has value but...

After 30-ish hours of instrument training, I decided that I'd never
have enough time to stay current and make it safe enough for me to
use... so I went out and bought a 'fun' airplane and I've never been
sorry for a second. Maybe an IFR rating would somehow make my flying
safer, but with no vacuum/gyros in the airplane I kinda doubt it.
:-)

There's just a *ton* of flying out there that has nothing to do with
looking at the inside of a cloud. Learn to fly a round loop, a true
slow roll, and exit a 3-turn spin exactly on heading. Formation
flying... simply the most fun thing I've ever done in an airplane.
Get your taildragger endorsement, or a glider rating (and earn your
5-hour badge in a 1-26... *that's* learning to be a pilot!!!), or your
high performance/complex endorsement (in a T-6 Texan!?!). There's
just no end to it, and IFR pales in comparison on the 'interesting'
scale (personal opinion).

Are you looking to use the airplane as a close-to-on-a-schedule
traveling tool? Get the IFR rating. Do you instead fly because you
love to fly, enjoying the trip as much as the destination? 8-

-Dave Russell
8KCAB

Paul Folbrecht wrote:

I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??

In a sense your friend is right but a little over the top. Unfortunately
most people who get there IR for personal use only, never fly in clouds
and this is the reason why.

I try to make every cross country flight an instrument flight even in
clear VMC. I fly in actual IMC maybe 4 times a year and very rarely for
over 30 min. I do use a simulator Elite Pro Trainer and I fly the
approaches on the sim before doing them for real at an unknown airport.

John Roncallo

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Paul Folbrecht wrote:

Thoughts on this??


I heard the same from a retired 737 pilot. The way he put it was "If you aren't
going to use it all the time, don't get an instrument rating".


George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

737 pilots dont use it all the time. They just punch through the clouds
in about 5 minuts. Usually with a 3 axis auto pilot.

John Roncallo

(Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

Tells you something about his maintanance practices and/or his pre-flight
skills!


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
ink.net...
I had always planned on getting my instrument rating- within the next
year, probably. But last weekend I had a chat with someone who really
got me thinking about it.

This guy is a friend of a friend and is a retired 20,000 hour ATP.
Retired in the 80s flying 707s and I forget what else. Instructed in
Cubs for years. (Guy has nine count 'em nine engine failures in Cubs!
Two inside 20 minutes once!)

So, this is what he told me: unless I'm going to be flying 3 times/week
at least, getting my instrument ticket is a waste and possibly dangerous
as well. He thinks I'll be more likely to end up dead with it than
without it. (Logic being, obviously, that the ticket will give me such
a sense of security that I won't be afraid of hard IMC even when I'm not
current enough to handle it.)

Thoughts on this??