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#172
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From: Tank Fixer
In article , on 15 Jun 2004 05:33:03 GMT, Denyav attempted to say ..... A fire in a coal bunker adjacent to one of the powder magazines. Exact cause of explosion is still not known,offical 1898 version was a spanish mine !. The exact cause may never be know. I am aware of the original official version. One thing is sure it was no accident and Spanians had nothing to do with it. Maybe Aliens masquarading as Spanians did it. Now did you intend to contradict yourself ? Most naval experts consider it to have been a coal bunker fire next to a powder magazine. In fact the boat WAS raised and inspected before being resunk at sea. There is footage of the boat as it sank. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#173
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... Did you go to the library? It's you that needs to read some history rather than the conspirowhacko drivel you keep reading. Do you mean the history manufactured by McCollum to cover the real history engineered by McCollum? Try some books. |
#174
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... When faced with the unfortunate truth that the transmitters were dismantled, label it a lie. Too much credible evidence supports this. Yeah right,28 intercepted transmissions from the Task Force were actualy sent by Outer Space Aliens masquerading as Japanase Sailors at this time. Lots more drivel. reality is not your friend is it? Yes, I'm quite happy to accept that the real world (aka "my reality") is different from your reality. Enjoy it,but I would rather stick to the reality behind NSA curtain (aka "vault reality") The problem of course is that you have never been behind the "NSA curtain", it's all just fantasy. hey didn't transmit, they documented why. deal with it. Yeah right,they were outer space aliens as I mentioned before. Certainly more credible than anything else you have raised. Quite a few. Good,then you should not be surpised to hear Task Force transmissions in CA. But very surprised to get a credible bearing with 1940s tech. Of course, since those Txs were not made, its all moot. Of course it is, now take your meds and behave yourself. Do you think that NSA fired formidable barrages of withdrawal notices for pre-Pearl Harbor documents after 1999 just make me behave right? Nope, I suspect it was done to make sure that there was little hint as to where current decrypt capabilities are. But then reality is not your friend, is it? |
#175
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Ah yes the near total erase and change the subject approach, take 2.
denyav wrote in message ... Actually I wrote the first set of text, I just love these sorts of conspiracy theories, they provide endless hours of laughter. It was to be expected Stinnett would make his appearance, his use of the famed McCollum Memo. By the way if you really want to have us believe Stinnett is the authority check out his page 324 of his hardcover edition where he states "There is no reliable evidence, found by the author, that establishes how much of the 5 - Num [JN25] could be deciphered, translated and read by naval cryptographers in 1941". Now go back and read the book where it assumes, his opinion, his assumption, the USN could read the signals Stinnett wants them to have read, including the ones he tries to pretend were sent by radio instead of hand delivered. Stinnett has no idea what the USN could read, he simply gives his opinion. Stinnett is the man who discovered that truthful answers to Pearl Harbor controversy secreted in bomb proof vaults,withheld from two congressional investigations and from American People. Yes folks, Robert Stinnett wrote a book where he relied on the US intercepting and decoding key IJN messages, then at the end of the book he told us all he had no idea what the US decoding abilities were. Just ignore the fact all through the book it is assumed the needed messages were decoded as required. It does help him when he ignores the change over from the A to the B version of JN-25 in late 1940, just assumed the success against the A version carried over to the B version, which was a different code book. Stinnett simply ignores the IJN code book upgrade of December 1940 in order to make his book work. That is the blinding of allied intelligence after making good progress into the initial code book "A" (hence the classification of the code in use in 1941 as JN-25 "B") is simply ignored by Stinnett. When challenged about this on his web site he simply failed to respond, except to complain about spelling errors and insist on "correct terminology". Taking Stinnett's word is a bad move. If you want a fun exercise in fact checking try and find a Stinnett footnote that actually backs up the claims in the text. So change the subject, peddle Stinnett's fiction about Pearl then peddle his fiction about US archives. Also note below which section McCollum was in, not OP-20-GY (codebreakers), the deleted claim was, "The architect of FDRs Japan &Pearl Harbor game plan was McCollum and McCollum was also,what a surprise !!,head of navy intelligence unit responsible IJN dispatches." This claim had to go, along with Pearl Harbor the movie as a source, the British knew more than the US and so on. I pinched the memo "highlights" from another post, note how the memo is addressed to the directors, not someone in the white house, yet it is supposed to make it to FDR in time for him to make it the lunchtime conversation the next day, the "proof" FDR saw the memo, just ignore the diary of the person FDR lunched with. "Op-16-F-2 ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) 7 October 1940 Memorandum For The Directors Subject: ESTIMATE OF THE SITUATION IN THE PACIFIC AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ACTION OF THE UNITED STATES..." A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore." The USN did not use British bases until after the war started. There was a conference in Manila about cooperation but it ended with the sighting of the IJN invasion convoys heading for Malaya. So this never happened pre war. By the way the German Japanese naval base agreement had been signed in 1940 or earlier. "B. Make an arrangement with Holland for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies" (now Indonesia)." As for point A. Never happened pre war. "C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang Kai-shek." 30 aircraft in 1940, 141 in 1941, compared with 1,507 for the British in 1940 and 5,249 in 1941. The USSR received more aircraft than China, in fact the "other foreign" column has 787 aircraft delivered at the US factories. All possible aid would have been a lot more aircraft for a start. By the way the 30 aircraft for China in 1940 were trainers, 70 of the 1941 aircraft were trainers, 53 fighters, 18 light bombers. So I presume the German sale of 12 aircraft to China in 1937 is an indicator Germany is giving all aid as well? How about the German military advisors present on the Chinese side in the late 1930s? I think they were withdrawn in 1939. "D. Send a division of long-range heavy cruisers to the western Pacific, the Philippines and Singapore." Didn't happen, hint Manila is in the western pacific, it had a heavy and a light cruiser plus the occasional extra cruiser passing through. "E. Send two divisions of submarines to the western Pacific." There were already USN submarines based in Manila, and the memo's ideas of reinforcements was not followed. As a guide to the changes note the USN had 96 submarines available, some in reserve, in September 1939, the older boats were brought out of reserve after war began in Europe and the total number available grew steadily to 112 by the end of November 1941. By the way USN submarine deployments to Manila from DANFS, according to my by hand counts. 11/24 (yes 24) onward S-36, S-37, S-38, S-39, S-40, S-41 7/1925 to 5/1932 S-30, S-31, S-32, S-33, S-34, S-35 So until the depression the USN had 12 submarines present. 12/39 onward Porpoise, Pike, Tarpon, Perch, Pickerel, Permit So the 12 submarine force is restored. 1939 Searaven "two years before war" my bet it should be with the 5 following submarines to make another 6 ship squadron and arrived at the end of 1940. 1940 Seawolf (autumn) 10 or 11/40 Stingray, Seadragon, Sealion 12/40 Shark 1941 month unknown Snapper (probably 11/41), Sailfish (after 3/41 at least since that was the month it started a refit in the US) 11/41 Salmon, Seal, Sturgeon, Sargo, Saury, Spearfish, Sculpin, Swordfish, Skipjack Total 29, the force at the start of the war, I think 4 were refitting on 8 December. "F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet, now in the Pacific, in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands." Done before the memo was written, the memo is dated in October, the basing decision was on 1 May 1940. "G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, Particularly oil." Add the British as well, it made no sense for the US to embargo oil if the Dutch and British would replace the lost sales. The US did not need to do much to persuade the Dutch, the Japanese idea of terms of trade did much to persuade the Dutch extra trade was not worth it. "H. Completely embargo all trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire." Finally happened, however the memo forgets to add the Dutch to the embargo. FDR had imposed trade embargoes on aviation fuel, lubricants and high grade scrap metal on 25 July 1940. On 26 September scrap iron was added to the list. In the first week in October, that is just before the memo was written the US ordered all Americans out of the far east, called up the naval reserve and authorised Anglo-American staff talks in Singapore. Additional supplies were sent to the Philippines as well. Remember folks, the memo is supposed to be the blueprint, apparently able to influence decisions before it was written. The Japanese negotiations with the Dutch over oil finally ended in the first week in October, with no gains for the Japanese. "10. If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better. At all event we must be fully prepared to accept the treat of war." Yes, Japan preferred war to giving up the chance to colonise China. So 8 recommendations, the first 4 were not followed, the fifth was not followed at the time, though more submarines were sent and then even more in late 1941, the sixth and seventh had already happened before the memo was written, the eighth finally happened around 9 months later and only after further Japanese expansion. Just remember the memo is the claimed blueprint for US government policy. As Late as 1995 the Joint Congressional investigation conducted by Sen.Thurman and and Rep.Franke was denied access to the Naval storage vault in Crane, IN Because of his efforts Naval Security Group Command agreed to transfer Crane files to National Archieves. "The Days of Deceipt" is based on what he found in first batch of released documents. After the days of deceipt appeared a strange thing happened,NSA immediately started withdrawing pre Pearl Harbor documents from Archive II. As of today almost 30 NSA withdrawal notices guarantee that pre Pearl Harbor documents discovered in Crane IN will be off limits to American People and their elected represantatives for another 60 years In the early 1990s the U. S. Navy transferred all its cryptologic archives from Crane, Indiana to the National Archives in Washington. This includes 26,581 JN-25 intercepts from 1 September to 7 December. All of these are available for public review. Stinnett is trying to run the line the truth is out there, the documents are missing, to defend against all the holes in his book. Hence the above claims of hidden documents. All IJN messages had a serial number, missing serials are assumed to be US hiding them, as opposed to US not intercepting them. Your above mentioned quote from the book refers to percentage of deciphered japanase messages it might be 30% or might be 100%. Yes folks, just keep peddling the fiction, ignore the documents that say 0%. As I said before the book was based on documents found in first batch of Crane documents released in middle of 90s,and information revealed in documents astonishing,but crane documents reviewed by Stinnett was only a minuscule percentage of crane documents,by far not enough to say something definite about the percentage of Japanase messages deciphered and translated by US. By the way folks, note Stinnett is very definite in the book about what messages were decoded. Including ones the Japanese say were never sent by radio. Stinnett is the truth bringer, even when he says he has no proof it seems. Also Stinnett was not the motivator for the release of the documents, he took advantage of their release. Stephen Budiansky, using the original USN designation AN for what was later called JN-25B. "Contemporaneous, month-by-month reports on the progress of the Navy codebreakers, each date-stamped, cover the entire period 1940-41. They cover the work of the entire unit known as OP-20-GY, the Navy cryptanalytic office in Washington, and also report on the progress of the Navy decryption units in Hawaii and Cavite. They show unambiguously that when the AN codebook was changed on December 1940, and subsequently when the additive tables used with the code were changed on August 1, 1941, the U.S. Navy lost its ability to read this traffic altogether. By December 1, 1941, only 3,800 of the 30,000-plus code groups and 2,500 of the 50,000 additives in AN had been recovered. (Most of the recovered code groups were those for numerals, an even further limitation on reading.) " Also note, "None of the messages found in the "Pre-Pearl Harbor Japanese Naval Dispatches" file mention Pearl Harbor by name. (This file is found in National Archives at College Park, RG 38, Crane Files, CNSG 5830/115; most of the messages have also have been reprinted in "Pearl Harbor Revisited: United States Navy Communications Intelligence, 1924-1941," an unclassified monograph published by the National Security Agency in 1994.)" The USN went back in 1945/46 and broke out as many of the pre war messages as it could to see what they could have told. One of the favourite tricks is to claim the 1946 dates are faked. The conspiracy here is one where people are paid for telling other people what they want to hear. The truth is to be ignored, the money does the talking, be poorer for being lied to and then be unwilling to admit the mistake, and so make yourself even poorer. Official Version here is the one where the officials are paid for telling the public what their bosses want.This is one important difference. Yes folks, ignore the many non official probes into Pearl Harbor that conclude the US did not know, just try and pretend it is all official history. Hundreds of books, articles and so on. Another important difference between offical story tellers and conspiracy loons is the following:Offical story tellers have priviledge to distort or completely withhold information whereas conspiracy loons cannot even dream of having such priviledges. Think about this one folks, the conspiracy loons apparently do not have the privileges to lie and distort, they must be officially granted it seems. So the conspiracy theories become officially sanctioned, which makes them wrong of course, as the official works are classified as wrong. Ah a good laugh does wonders. However the really fun thing is the way the fiction in Stinnett is to be enhanced, by promoting McCollum. No longer is he the Far East expert in the Office of Naval Intelligence, no he is promoted to the command of either ONI (Captain or Admiral rank) or the head of OP-20-GYP, the USN organisation charged with breaking Japanese codes, it was originally called OP-20-GY. Also the famed memo never went further than his boss, nowhere near FDR. The Famed Memo did not need to go anywhere,it became offical Japan policy of FDR administration. Yes folks, the memo, which no one beyond the writer and his boss saw became US government policy. Presumably by telepathy. Just try and ignore minor points like the decision to move the Pacific fleet to Hawaii predates the memo. See the memo above to note the gap between reality and the claims. By the way if the latest attempt at fiction is to somehow pretend the USN decryption section did not do the work on "purple" it shows an even bigger lack of reality. The "purple" work overloaded the section, slowing down all work. The USN had only one section of cryptographers and security cleared language experts. Finally all the IJN documents and survivors agree the force did not transmit after leaving their usual harbours. See for example the surviving logs, the 1942 IJN after action report and the post war interrogations. The idea Yamamoto would be so stupid as to put his strike force in a harbour that could only be contacted by radio is a joke. The Japanese Navy took control over the cable station at Hitokappu Bay. Also, there was a marine cable between Nemuro, Hokkaido and Shana, Etorofu in 1941 which was then tied to the telegraph office at Hitokappu Bay. Source. Recollection of Mr. Hirokazu Kawguchi of Hachioji City in Tokyo who was born at Shana in 1923 and worked at the Shana cable office. Next, there was a daily air courier service between Ominato and Hitokappu Bay to transfer documents received from Tokyo by air and to send documents to Tokyo by air while the 1st Air Fleet was at Hitokappu Bay. Source. ?History on Communications? by Admiral Susumiiro Ishiguru (of Strike Force experience) (Tokyo: Tokyo Reserve Police Association 1953). Who told Yamamato that their Naval code was broken? Yes folks, just try and change the subject, the IJN says it did not transmit, in logs written at the time, in the wartime after action report and during the post war interrogations. This has to be ignored. The idea Yamamoto was so stupid as to park his top secret task force in a place where there was only radio communications has to be ignored. Just ignore the way traffic analysis works, the use of call signs on messages to gain an idea what is going on, the volume and size of messages. Then add direction finding on transmitters. No folks, the IJN is assumed to be completely ignorant of any sort of radio discipline or deception techniques. The conspiracy needs the IJN in on the act from1941 on. Navies are well aware of the need to limit radio traffic, they try to do it as much as possible, the IJN understood the reasons why and acted accordingly. Even today you can intercept any radio transmission easily,but if you cannot decode and decipher it,its useless. Know nothing about the uses of traffic analysis and direction finding I see. Even after Pearl Harbor IJN continued to use the same code because they were not aware that it was broken. Radio messages sent with unbroken or unbreakable code is as safe as courier messages,if not more. Yes folks, just ignore the fact you can learn a lot from the call signs, who is talking to who, the volume of traffic and the movements of mobile transmitters. It is amusing to see the idea couriers are less secure than radio transmissions, presumably why no one uses couriers any more. As Professor Kimball wrote: "It seems to me that to brand WSC and/or FDR as conspirators requires that they be seen as evil geniuses. But for them to allow the U.S. Fleet to be clobbered means they were stupid. That doesn't compute." " The rest of the post is simply text that could not be replied to, By the way folks, the conspiracy claims are dropped, instead we have something totally different dropped in. Deleted text, "You forgot item 4) the conspiracy theory around the start of the war and the claims the Maine was deliberately sabotaged by the US. The non real event. You see the fact the IJN attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941 is known and understood. The added "facts" of a conspiracy are the contributions of people who cannot cope with reality. " Translation do not deal with the issues on their merits, invent crimes from years ago and use those as an excuse to do what you want to do, above all do not think. I note the fun things like the URL for the congressional petition transcript makes note of the Japanese consulate's words about a surprise attack being possible, a message not broken out before the attack, to accuse Washington of short changing the field commanders. If the assessment is a surprise attack was possible what does that say of two things, 1) the size of the defences 2) the alertness of the defences. 1) Is largely Washington determined, 2) is locally determined. But do not worry, erase item 2 and carry on with the field commanders did nothing wrong line. Yes folks, understand, look for your facts in Hollywood movies, just add the words you want to historical documents and so on. It is quite simple, since unwelcome reality can be wished away just decide the preferred outcome and adjust the preferred facts accordingly. Denyav is a CIA/FBI/ABC/CBS/DKNY/USN/USAAF, oh what the heck, AAA (many organisations deleted) to ZZZZZ plant. Here to try and improve the reputation of the US by making absolutely absurd claims about it, so no one believes the real claims. By the way note below the talk is all about the missing evidence, but we are told 99.99% is available. Deleted text, on the Congressional moves, " http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/cpqu...el=TOC_545749& Go look up the other items included, the Indianapolis sinking and the waiver on time limits for decorations. " http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/docs/texts/kimmel.htm By the way the claim trying to be defended is the idea Kimmel hurled such accusations at FDR etc. Instead we have the family members putting the best case forward as to why Washington deserves some of the blame. The transcript indicates the accusations were the usual ones, the people in Washington made the errors (not the conspiracy) and the people in Pearl paid the price. Note the transcript is not about prior knowledge of the attack, only the blame game afterwards. However when you want to invent fiction just change this to conspiracy accusations. By the way in the above text Professor Gannon claims 1,000 PBY patrol planes were sent to the British pre Pearl Harbor when he calculates Pearl needed 200 for all round patrols but only had 49. The British (meaning RAF, RCAF. RNZAF and RAAF) received somewhere around 3/4 of this figure for the entire war. The US produced a whole 410 Patrol bombers in 1941, up from 34 in 1940, 22 Martin Mariners (PBM), 6 Consolidated Coranados (PB2Y) and 416 Catalinas (PBY) 1940 to 1941. The PBY had been in production pre war, with around 200 delivered by the end of 1939. Of course you need to remove from the totals the 41 patrol bombers delivered in December 1941 and probably the 54 delivered in October and November 1941 as not being available to sent to Hawaii in time. Also noting the pre war deliveries, starting in 1936, were lower powered versions, 1,800 to 2,000 HP versus 2,400 for the 1940 on versions So we have around 600 patrol bombers with the necessary range built and available to the USN and everyone else, less the attrition of normal flying, 200 of which are needed for Pearl Harbor. Presumably then over 200 are needed for the Philippines, then comes the U-boat threat to the US east coast plus Panama then comes the British requirement. The British are useful, they give feedback on actual combat operations. Do not forget aircraft for training operations as well plus the inevitable losses. Kimmel is allowed "lack of resources" but Washington is not. Nice use of logic. So what's that say 600 aircraft, less around 1/2 for obsolete types, for training and attrition, and we have 300 suitable aircraft. Pearl wants 200, the Philippines wants more, the east coast wants some, the British want some, the training system wants more so it can up the training rate and so on. Pearl Harbor was given 49 aircraft, enough to continuously cover an arc of 90 degrees according to Professor Gannon, or the approaches from the Japanese mandated islands. How many were actually flying such searches on the 5th, 6th and 7th? Gone looking for this evidence? Just jump to conspiracy theory, instead of something like they decided it looked like the Navy was being kind to its own. Deleted text, "Putting words into Kimmel's mouth now I see. Kimmel's defence was that he was deprived of information he needed, mainly messages from the local Japanese consulate and timely warning of the time the last Japanese message was supposed to be presented to the US. There was nothing said about senior leaders wanting the attack to happen." On claims the inquiries were rigged, "I like this, if the one entity argument is followed then the claimed let off for Kimmel is the rigged result, it was an all Navy affair." Ah yes the movie Pearl Harbor is your guide to US intelligence actions in 1941, but wait, there is more, since the movie is a joke on this point the need is to imply the British did it. Just ignore the way the British had more pressing matters on their hands, that the US was leading the way against Japanese diplomatic traffic and the British and US were sharing IJN code recovery work. So what one knew the other did as well. Yes folks, Kimmel was where he should be, no matter where you go, there you are. Note by the way the attempt to paint the inquiry as the absolutely right result, despite claiming not to have seen the evidence presented to it. The USN is the straight organisation, despite the fact it would have been doing the decoding of those wonder messages, it is the one that holds the "truth", everything else is wrong. The conspiracy does not apply to the naval inquiry, it could never have been rigged of course, it has the "right" result, so everything else was rigged. What did the inquiry clear Kimmel of, dereliction of duty, lack of judgement? Standard conspiracy stuff, the right answer is out there, somewhere, pick your preferred outcome. Previously before the next text was another standard claim about conspiracies, as usual the claim has to be deleted and the subject changed. I like this, especially since I posted text showing how the War Warning messages were the same around the Pacific. And MacArthur certainly did not lose more men and equipment that the people in Hawaii in the opening day of the war. What I really like is the duck, unable to answer the text, so change the subject. "By the way the above logic implies the Japanese could have invaded the Philippines, Wake and Guam, killing and capturing Americans and the US would have allowed this. The US did not need Pearl Harbor to enter the Pacific war. The IJN started sinking US merchant ships just before the attack went in." Try and read history, it provides answers like, 1) too far away to know exactly what was going on, 2) MacArthur controlling much of the information flow, 3) The low expectations about holding the Philippines, 4) The reality moving against MacArthur would provoke a reaction in Washington, being seen as an attempt by FDR to rid himself of an unwanted General. Deleted text, It would be nice to know the source of the claimed Kimmel words, it seems his lifetime's output is being searched for any claim he made, no proof offered. Remarkable line being run, the US is the source of all evil but the US is so good, so amazing, it cannot be defeated, only betrayed from within. No one can launch an unexpected attack on the US, it sees and knows all, I must ask the US where my favourite pen has ended up. Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email. |
#176
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Umm, you do know that Adm Yamamoto was in the home waters on one of the
battleships ? And that the "First Air Fleet" WAS the Pearl Harbor attack force. So this aledged interecpts was of a transmision to NOT from the attack force. Yes,as I clearly stated in the post this message dated Nov,26 is from Yamamato to First Air Fleet. There are 2 seperate things in this story 1)Did US (or Brits,Dutch) break Japanase naval code JN25b before Pearl Harbor? 2)Did Task force break radio sience break radio silence between Nov.26 and Dec7 ? 1)Naval code was surely broken on Nov,16(also before Task force left home waters)but probably earlier. 2)Task Force did break radio silence at least 28 times. lso, just where does that quote come from ? From Crane IN, Current position: Yes they decoded it but they were unable to translate it because of shortage of personel.If you buy it. |
#177
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The problem of course is that you have never been behind the "NSA curtain",
it's all just fantasy. So,apparently you are behind NSA curtain which makes your efforts even more understandable. Whats the NSA rationale behind of issuing tens of withdrawal notices for Crane files? Concerns about the fantasies that could turn into "official" realities? Certainly more credible than anything else you have raised. Not more credible but more politically correct for some. Nope, I suspect it was done to make sure that there was little hint as to where current decrypt capabilities are. Just a small hint for you,withdrawal notices cover almost all pre-Pearl Harbor documents whereas post PH documents were only slightly effected. So,Pre-Pearl Harbor decypt capabilities should be more advanced and more relevant than post Pearl Harbor capabilities. Heck,the way it seems the Task Force did not only sink ships but took US decyption capabilities away. But then reality is not your friend, is it? Apparently you still did not go to library? |
#178
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In the early 1990s the U. S. Navy transferred all its cryptologic
archives from Crane, Indiana to the National Archives in Washington. This includes 26,581 JN-25 intercepts from 1 September to 7 December. All of these are available for public review. You forgat to mention: EXCEPT those withdrawn documents (Because of NSA notices of course) Stephen Budiansky, using the original USN designation AN for what was later called JN-25B. You forgat to mention his NSA ties. book "A" (hence the classification of the code in use in 1941 as JN-25 "B") is simply ignored by Stinnett. When challenged about this on his web site he simply failed to respond, except to complain about spelling errors and insist In the Archieve II records Safford asserts that US was reading 90% of JN25b prior to Dec.7. According routing designator Nov.16 Lietwiler letter was also seen by Safford . But Safford did not say anything to Congressional investigators about his assertion or Lirtwiler letter. Of Course US congress was only allowed to investigate blinfolded, They were allowed to investigate Pearl Harbor but only by using hand picked documents. It happens only in Washington. |
#179
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In message , L'acrobat
writes Snip If I may intrude Good,then you should not be surpised to hear Task Force transmissions in CA. But very surprised to get a credible bearing with 1940s tech. A 'Class 1' DF bearing was better than 1deg in those days. Accuracy of position depended on ionospheric blurring of position lines. U-boats in the Atlantic were plotted to within 20 miles at times. Of course, since those Txs were not made, its all moot. Of course it is, now take your meds and behave yourself. Do you think that NSA fired formidable barrages of withdrawal notices for pre-Pearl Harbor documents after 1999 just make me behave right? Nope, I suspect it was done to make sure that there was little hint as to where current decrypt capabilities are. I doubt it. Particularly with the advent of super-computors like the Cray etc and more advanced mathematics, the methods used today wouldn't be predictable from methods of 60 years ago. Mike -- M.J.Powell |
#180
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... The problem of course is that you have never been behind the "NSA curtain", it's all just fantasy. So,apparently you are behind NSA curtain which makes your efforts even more understandable. Oh, I see how it works - you claim to have knowledge of this stuff and when it is pointed out that you don't you try to turn it around. It doesn't help your argument. Whats the NSA rationale behind of issuing tens of withdrawal notices for Crane files? Concerns about the fantasies that could turn into "official" realities? Clearly you have never had a security clearance. those of us who have know that the default position is to classify everything and declassify almost nothing. Why - because if you fail to classify something (or mistakenly declassify something) that should remain secret then you can't go back. What loons like you fail to realise is that the documents that you think support your fantasy no doubt have some classified info in them, it just has nothing to do with your delusions. Certainly more credible than anything else you have raised. Not more credible but more politically correct for some. So now well documented historical fact is 'political correctness', trying that one doesn't hep your case either. Nope, I suspect it was done to make sure that there was little hint as to where current decrypt capabilities are. Just a small hint for you,withdrawal notices cover almost all pre-Pearl Harbor documents whereas post PH documents were only slightly effected. So,Pre-Pearl Harbor decypt capabilities should be more advanced and more relevant than post Pearl Harbor capabilities. You seem to be focussed on PH - those docs could, for example have info on decrypts of Brit cyphers (Military, Govt or Commercial) that were decrypted, that would still cause embaressment if it were to be revealed that the US was reading a current allys mail. And since you don't know the contents of those withdrawn docs, you don't know what it is they might tell, you are simply building a fantasy. Heck,the way it seems the Task Force did not only sink ships but took US decyption capabilities away. But then reality is not your friend, is it? Apparently you still did not go to library? Do try to keep up, and the local comic book stand is not a library. I think the simplest thing to point out here is that you think the movie "Pearl Harbor" is a documentary, which indicates how little credibility you actually have on the subject. |
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