Way off topic, but it has do to with the French

So, may I presume that you have nothing further to contribute to the
conversation?

And - in case you think I don't "get it" -- what you've posted is
summarize thusly: "Since I know people who joke about the French the
jokes must be true."

The fact that you can't appreciate how patently absurd this reasoning
is (not the sentiment about the French, but the logic driving you to
this conclusion) means you're hopeless.

So, the answer to my question is "no". Fine by me.

The problem with you (and people like you) is that you can't ever discuss a
topic without taking it personally. Hell, I *am* French, and I don't give
two ****s about who makes fun of whom -- and YOU'RE the one getting your
panties in a bunch?

What a maroon.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Your hypersensitivity aside, I'm trying to explain to you WHY the
French are the butt of jokes in America.
But they aren't the butt of jokes in America. At least not where I live.

They have been both places I've lived.

I've lived in two states (Side note for Martin: Both states are bigger than
most European countries), and many different cities. I've worked in
Chicago, Milwaukee, Racine, Kenosha, Iowa City, Cedar Rapids. I've worked
for and with the New York Times, the Racine Journal Times, the Chicago
Tribune, and the Cedar Rapids Gazette.

In every locale, in every position, the French are AT BEST chuckled at.
Maybe it's a Midwestern thing, maybe it's a generational thing -- I don't
know -- but it's pretty much universal, and was especially prevalent with my
dad's (WWII) generation.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Yes, I do. Else I'd still think that you are alltogether ignorant idiots -
like many people think here about Americans. So now I only think that - as
everywhere else - only a minority are ignorant idiots, but one hears not
too much of the other folks with a clue.

I wish my father was still alive, so his generation could come over there
and kick your asses -- again. Oh, wait -- we "rescued" Austria from the
Nazis... Right.

My only hope is that your kids are different and that they sometime try to
search for their names, so they will find your postings on this group and
they hopefully will see what an ignorant you are. You said your son makes
a trip to spain (?): hopefully he get's an idea of how things work "in the
rest of the world".

Yep, Joe's going to Spain in a couple of weeks. He will be living with a
family there for the better part of two weeks, completely immersed in
Spanish culture. It should be a great experience for him.

That said, I've been amazed at what his school has been teaching him in
advance of this trip. The dire warnings against doing things that are
considered to be entirely innocuous and normal here fall somewhere between
scary and appalling. They've even gone so far as to tell our kids not to
bring t-shirts with American flags on them, lest they be seen as people who
are proud of their country of origin. (Apparently to the
less-than-self-confident Europeans, this would be seen as an affront?)

Interestingly, we've all told Joe that we want Spanish-flag t-shirts as
souvenirs. We might even wear them. Shocking!

Due to budget constraints, the kids will also be riding those infamous
subways around Madrid -- something we are less than happy about. I trust
that since the Spanish Army fled Iraq after the last round of subway
bombings, my kid will be entirely safe. Not!

As for our passport status, yep, we've got 'em. But I don't foolishly
believe that by visiting a few tourist attractions in a country that I will
"know" it any better than if I had paid attention in school. Hell, I've
spent almost fifty years exploring the Northern Hemisphere from
coast-to-coast, and STILL don't "know" it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2008-03-05, Jay Honeck wrote:
Provide that, and you can lead Frenchmen to Moscow.

Exactly. And it is precisely because the French have fallen so far that
they are now thought of so poorly.

Combine that with their inexplicable arrogance in the face of irrelevance,
and you have comic fodder.

I've actually been to France. Perhaps because I didn't go to Paris, but
was in the middle of nowhere... but I didn't find the people to be in
any way arrogant. They were, in fact, no different to the typical middle
class American - they were just normal and perfectly pleasant people,
who just spoke a funny language. Although I found I was fluent in French
if I drank enough wine in a short enough time period. Well, it seemed
that way anyway.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Combine that with their inexplicable arrogance in the face of
irrelevance,
and you have comic fodder.

I've actually been to France. Perhaps because I didn't go to Paris, but
was in the middle of nowhere... but I didn't find the people to be in
any way arrogant. They were, in fact, no different to the typical middle
class American - they were just normal and perfectly pleasant people,
who just spoke a funny language. Although I found I was fluent in French
if I drank enough wine in a short enough time period. Well, it seemed
that way anyway.

G I've spoken many languages fluently after too much wine...

As I pointed out up-thread, French people on an individual level are often
regarded as "cool", "suave", and "debonair". This is in stark contrast to
their national reputation, which can be summed up as "bumbling", "lazy", and
"cowardly".

This sets anti-French humor apart from the humor that is poked at (for
example) Poles. "Pollock Jokes" (as they are called in Wisconsin) make
individual Poles sound like idiots, yet no one regards the Polish nation or
its government as anything less than gallant.

It's an interesting, telling difference that some state-funded sociologist
could make a career out of studying, I'm sure.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You still don't get it. Cultural stereotypes are little jokes we tell
about each other to have some fun. They're not real, we're just pulling
each other's legs. And it's the job of the one who tells them to invent
them. So for example it would be your job to invent an anti-German one.
But you didn't, you just repeated the same old same old one. Lame.
Meanwhile it's our job to come up with anti-American ones, which is
what I did. It's your job not to get uppity about it, especially not as
you do it to everyone else, but to lay back and enjoy it.

Exactly! At last, someone who "gets" it!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
I've
worked for and with the New York Times, the Racine Journal Times, the
Chicago Tribune, and the Cedar Rapids Gazette.

In every locale, in every position, the French are AT BEST chuckled at.

Lest someone think this signifies a journalistic association, you
delivered newspapers. You managed many people who delivered the papers.
Your role was supply management, which is not to take away from the
responsibility, but you have never had any job reporting or handling the
news in any way, except to toss it onto the doorstep. Implying
otherwise is to claim expertise to which you are not entitled.

I don't much care who my newspaper delivery person chuckles at. Not to
put them down, but I don't weigh their opinions on public policy.



(On a totally different note, I miss MontPaul, a jolly good fellow who
often interjected welcome humor into these discussions.)

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
Your hypersensitivity aside, I'm trying to explain to you WHY the
French are the butt of jokes in America.
But they aren't the butt of jokes in America. At least not where I
live.

They have been both places I've lived.

I've lived in two states

So? I've lived in four states: Minnesota (37 years), North Carolina (1
year), California (12 years), and Oregon (3 years and counting). And I've
actually had a boss who was from France, for what that is worth.

In every locale, in every position, the French are AT BEST chuckled
at. Maybe it's a Midwestern thing, maybe it's a generational thing --
I don't know -- but it's pretty much universal, and was especially
prevalent with my dad's (WWII) generation.

I'm from the midwest too. When I was growing up it wasn't the French who
were the butt of jokes, it was Polish jokes. One of my uncles was of Polish
descent and he heard 'em all - and turned them around and changed the
nationality to that of the listener's. So this:

Q: Did you hear about the Polish Helicopter crash?
A: The pilot got cold, so he turned off the fan.

became this:

Q: Did you hear about the Romanian Helicopter crash?
A: The pilot got cold, so he turned off the fan.

(My last name is Romanian or some corruption of it, so we heard a lot of
Romanian jokes from him. :-))

Martin Hotze wrote:
Wolfgang Schwanke schrieb:
but to lay back and enjoy it.


Hey! You're German. Aren't you supposed to not have fun at all? :-))

I thought it was the British who weren't supposed to have fun. Or maybe sex
- I forget the exact details.

Jay Honeck wrote:
They've even gone so far as to tell our kids not to
bring t-shirts with American flags on them, lest they be seen as people who
are proud of their country of origin. (Apparently to the
less-than-self-confident Europeans, this would be seen as an affront?)

In my experience of current european perspective, I think they would like the
confidence to know their spanish bus will not be blown up cuz there is an
american nationalist on it.

--
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