How safe is it, really?

"Dan Luke"
I might add 10 gallons if my alternate required it, but three hours'
fuel is normally plenty of IFR reserve for a one hour trip. No way I'd
top off.

Hell yes.

Is that hell yes, you would or hell yes, you wouldn't?

Three hours is good almost anywhere.

6$ in the aviation business is like a QM effect in the world of Newtonian
Mechanics.

Hee-hee! That's a beauty! Request permission to use it on another
ng. I'll trade you "In the big picture, it's a few pixels."

As you will. Study physics when you're done your ATP.

moo

Happy Dog wrote:

ALWAYS refuel after every flight, so that we always have full tanks.

I don't know why more pilots don't do this.

I don't know what you are flying, but with the planes I fly, full tanks
aren't an option unless I want to fly alone.

Stefan

Happy Dog asks;

Does the waiver relate to the jump facility AND the manufacturer?

I jumped once, just to see what it was like. The first thing that they
do when you get to the jump facility (at least the one that I went to in
Maine), was tell you that it's real dangerous, and that you could get
killed. Then, they sat us down and showed us a 1/2 hour long movie of
parachuting accidents (real ones), with folks falling out of the sky,
hitting the ground, and dying. After that, they asked us to sign
waivers that said that no matter what happened, EVEN IF THE PILOT OF THE
JUMP PLANE CRASHED ON PURPOSE (and similar wording for just about every
other possibility) that we wouldn't sue anyone, and that we were
completely aware of all the dangers.

Obviously, we couldn't sign away anyone ELSE's right to sue, so I'm sure
that if I had been killed my wife would have approached a lawyer, but
the fact that I signed a document that showed that I understood ALL the
risks, even the absurdly remote ones (like the pilot crashing on
purpose) means that she'd never win.

Anyway, the waivers I signed applied to everyone and anyone that had
ever been born, much less the facility and MFG.

It was an interesting experience :-).

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
"Mike Rapoport" wrote in

I think that Michael's point is that virtually everybody recognizes that
there is risk in skydiving but prefers to think that flying is as safe
as
driving. Nobody takes their two year old skydiving.

I'd like to see some stats on accidents vs. lawsuits before I believe that
dead skydivers' families are that different from dead pilots' families.

I doubt they are. It's just a question of likelihood of winning the suit,
which I suppose gets back to Michael's point. But I maintain that the
general culture of lawyers versus responsibility remains the real problem.

A funny story. Back in the late 80s my father was in a car accident when an
old woman crossed the double yellow on a blind turn. He walked away from it,
but after a few weeks his back started to hurt terribly and he eventually
had to have an operation for a herniated disk. A colleague referred him to a
very successful and well-known personal injury lawyer, who at first
suspected that his case would be worth between 250 and 500 thousand dollars
for suffering and lost wages, etc. But when they kicked the old woman's
insurance company they found she had only the minimum $30k coverage.
Moreover, she had quite literally no assets whatsoever. As the senior lawyer
was relating this to my father, one of the younger associates walked in and
said, "hey, Chevy's been having a lot of problems with seat belts in that
year's trucks, we could probably get them for two hundred." My father said,
"but I wasn't wearing my seatbelt." The associate said, "Don't tell me that!
A lot of times people forget things when they've been in an accident." My
father refused to go ahead with the case, but it provided a very revealing
look into how the system works, and this was fifteen years ago.

-cwk.

As you will. Study physics when you're done your ATP.

Physics was one of my favorite classes. It was also one of my worst.
Hamiltonian Operators among other things did me in!

Carl

This sounds like the British rule, where the loser pays the winner's
legal expenses. Very sensible.

Initially I thought so but there are several reasons why this may not always
be a good idea.

Think of this hypothetical case where Joe CFI gets hit by OJ and needs to
sue. Joe CFI shows up with his ACME attorney charging $300/ hr; which he
really cannot afford. But he truely was hit by OJ who was drunk and fleeing
a murder scene. Now OJ, guilty as can be, shows up with 6 attorneys all
charging $850/hr plus expenses.

Joe loses because the opposing council baffles the crap of of 12 unemployed
postal workers. Now Joe is injured and loses everything and must file
bankrupsy and he was only guilty of being on his way to church.

;-)

Of course it isn't working the way it is now either.

Carl

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Happy Dog wrote:

ALWAYS refuel after every flight, so that we always have full tanks.

I don't know why more pilots don't do this.

I don't know what you are flying, but with the planes I fly, full tanks
aren't an option unless I want to fly alone.

It should be obvious that I wasn't suggesting that anyone overload their
aircraft.

m

"Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote in message
Obviously, we couldn't sign away anyone ELSE's right to sue, so I'm sure
that if I had been killed my wife would have approached a lawyer, but
the fact that I signed a document that showed that I understood ALL the
risks, even the absurdly remote ones (like the pilot crashing on
purpose) means that she'd never win.

Wrong.

moo

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Matt Barrow wrote:

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater
degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness,
incapacity, or neglect." -- Unknown

"Captain A. G. Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London. Circa
early 1930's..." (http://www.skygod.com/quotes/safety.html - 2nd quote
from the top)

I've also seen it elsewhere with the same author credited, so it seems
legit.

I've got it set up as one of my wallpaper images on my PC... One of these
days I'll have to stick some of my aviation wallpaper things up on my
website...

Brian
PP-ASEL/Night
http://www.warbard.ca/avgas/index.html

Happy Dog wrote:

ALWAYS refuel after every flight, so that we always have full tanks.

It should be obvious that I wasn't suggesting that anyone overload their
aircraft.

If you refuel after each flight to *full* tanks, as suggested, chances
are you will be overload on the next flight unless you drain some fuel.
Maybe not if you're the only pilot who flyes the plane and you have a
certain loading pattern, but certainly in a club (or FBO) environment.

In our club, we *forbid* people to fill the tanks after a flight to more
than two thirds.

(I know it wasn't you who suggested it, but you confirmed the suggestion.)

Stefan