Why is LOP (lean of peak) controversial?

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
karl gruber wrote:

You more than likely have an CHT indication problem. There is no reason
your
airplane should run much cooler than the fleet.

On all six probes? That seems a tad unlikely. Additionally, are you
really in a position to speak for the fleet?

All six probes............yes that would be MORE likely an indication
problem.

And yes, I am in a good position to speak for the fleet.

Karl

karl gruber wrote:

.yes that would be MORE likely an indication
problem.

OK. As I indicated I am not taking the responses here lightly and should
have an answer over the next few days. In fact, I will also call JPI to
solicit their input on CHT probes.

And yes, I am in a good position to speak for the fleet.

I am sincerely curious, how did you get in such a position?

--
Peter

I am sincerely curious, how did you get in such a position?

--
Peter

Experience. I installed and flew multi-probed engine analyzers in the late
60's. Since then I've flown 100s of light aircraft commercially, as a ferry
pilot and instructor. I've flown with my friend, John Deakin, both in his
Bonanza and my Cessna 185. I doubt that your Bonanza is somehow set up that
your CHTs would be 60-80 degrees below many other Bonanzas or John's,
especially since he is so fastidious about his installation.

Best,
Karl

karl gruber wrote:

. I doubt that your Bonanza is somehow set up that
your CHTs would be 60-80 degrees below many other Bonanzas or John's,
especially since he is so fastidious about his installation.

Woah, now I am really listening. Drop names like that and I am all
ears.

This is the type of **** that scares me about aircraft ownership. Here I
am, fat, dumb, and happy thinking with a data point of one that hot CHTs
are not an issue with my aircraft and then something like this comes out of
my blind side to smack me in the face.

I transitioned to this aircraft from a Cessna 172 that had nothing except
poor analog FF and EGT gauges. Thus, when I was introduced to the world
of engine monitors, I relied on the experience of the previous owner of
this aircraft, who, as a 1,500 hour Bonanza pilot, also sang the praises of
how cool the CHTs ran during cruise.

Man, if my JPI probes are off by 60-80 degrees, I am going to have some
serious questions of TA Turbo, JPI, and my mechanic.

In your experience, what would cause such an error?

--
Peter

In your experience, what would cause such an error?

--
Peter

I don't know. What does the JPI read when you first walk into the hangar? I
suspect something in the JPI panel unit. It's just an airplane part, and
every one of those things are going to break or quit SOMETIME!

Call TA...............see what they say.

Best,
Karl

karl gruber wrote:

It's just an airplane part, and
every one of those things are going to break or quit SOMETIME!

Agreed, except that it seems strange to me that if something in this unit
did fail, the failure only shows up as a percentage drop in CHTs.


--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:

Ray Andraka wrote:


Is your JPI set up for the correct probe type?


Could you expand on this? I do not know the answer and if this might be
the case, I would like to be able to approach my mechanic with an educated
question.



There are two types of thermocouples used for EGTs. K type and J type.
Each has a different coefficient for output voltage vs temperature. If
you have JPI probes, then that should not be a problem. If you used
other probes, they might not be the correct type, which would give
readings that are scaled.

Another possibility is if the probe wires were extended with wire other
than thermocouple wire, the junction between the thermocouple wire and
the extension wire will add an additional thermocouple to the loop,
introducing an offset voltage at the instrument. The offset voltage
will translate to an offset temperature indication that is proportional
to the temperature at the junction.

Peter R. wrote:

Newps wrote:


I would have to work to get my CHT's anywhere near 400.


What do you see routinely during cruise?

I have the factory instruments, no engine monitor. This afternoon I
flew up to check out some bird hunting grounds near the Canadian border.
At 9500, wide open throttle and 2500 I was getting CHT's at 300
degrees. OAT was 40F. On the way back we flew at between 3 and 4
thousand. 24 inches and 2500 rpm, a little over 74%. I was seeing 350F
on the CHT at an OAT of 70F. I was about 30-40 LOP the whole way back,
burning 14 GPH, indicating 175-177 mph.

Peter R. wrote:

Newps wrote:


I mentioned this fact on a Beech
email list that I am involved with.


What list is this?


http://lists.aviating.com/mailman/listinfo/beech-owners

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
karl gruber wrote:

. I doubt that your Bonanza is somehow set up that
your CHTs would be 60-80 degrees below many other Bonanzas or John's,
especially since he is so fastidious about his installation.

Woah, now I am really listening. Drop names like that and I am all
ears.

Name dropping, or refering to a fellow whose numbers are much higher than
yours (on the record) and whose setup and installation were done by the same
company.


This is the type of **** that scares me about aircraft ownership. Here I
am, fat, dumb, and happy thinking with a data point of one that hot CHTs
are not an issue with my aircraft and then something like this comes out
of
my blind side to smack me in the face.

WTF?


I transitioned to this aircraft from a Cessna 172 that had nothing except
poor analog FF and EGT gauges. Thus, when I was introduced to the world
of engine monitors, I relied on the experience of the previous owner of
this aircraft, who, as a 1,500 hour Bonanza pilot, also sang the praises
of
how cool the CHTs ran during cruise.

Man, if my JPI probes are off by 60-80 degrees, I am going to have some
serious questions of TA Turbo, JPI, and my mechanic.

That's what a bunch here have been telling you. As well, is the problem
TATurbo (they did your's, Deakin's, mine, hundreds of others, but your's is
the anomaly.

I suspect you've been to the APS seminar, and you didn't notice something
wrong in your numbers? Then, too, it's not unheard of that an installation
(probes, analyzer, etc) would fail shortly after being placed in service.

I'm not sure, but it seems you're having a bad reaction to the news that
something isn't kosher with your airplane.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)