How did the Iranians get the Phoenix to work?

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained technicians, spare parts, and
time.

"Ragnar" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained technicians, spare parts, and
time.

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to school with Iranian engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.

"Hobo" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to school with Iranian
engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.

I have read that the Grumman techs pulled the daughterboards necessary
for firing the Phoenix. That isn't solved by building new phoenii.

No, it's solved by working out what those circuit boards did and making
replacements.

Nick

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did they overcome the sabotage?

Hobo,
don't get me wrong, but there is a book that describes it all nicely and to
the last details: http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Don't be lazy, but check it there and you'll see that all similar rumors
about the US technicians "sabotaging" Iranian F-14s so these couldn't fire
AIM-54s are actually a complete and utter nonsence.

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

"Tom Cooper" wrote in message

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that the Iranians made effective
and widespread use of the Phoenix missle against Iraq. I have always
read that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians altered the
F-14s they were servicing so that they could never fire the Phoenix.
If the Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did they overcome the
sabotage?

Hobo,
don't get me wrong, but there is a book that describes it all nicely
and to the last details: http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Don't be lazy, but check it there and you'll see that all similar
rumors about the US technicians "sabotaging" Iranian F-14s so these
couldn't fire AIM-54s are actually a complete and utter nonsence.

Considering that the Iranians are continuing to fly their F14's and indeed
*improving* them speaks volumes for their ingenuity.

--
http://www.delversdungeon.dragonsfoot.org
Remove the X's in my email address to respond.
"Damn you Silvey, and your endless fortunes." - Stephen Weir
I hate furries.

Don't be lazy, but check it there and you'll see that all similar
rumors about the US technicians "sabotaging" Iranian F-14s so these
couldn't fire AIM-54s are actually a complete and utter nonsence.

Considering that the Iranians are continuing to fly their F14's and indeed
*improving* them speaks volumes for their ingenuity.


We had some Pre-Revolution Iranian Warrant Officers (is hofmadors the right
term?) visit our ground radio shop for familarization for two weeks in
circa 78-79. We threw some troubleshooting problems at them which they
solved fairly easily. The NCO's in charge of my shop were fairly impressed
with them and the Iranians got bored fairly quickly. Both were not thrilled
to return to Iran due to the revolution going on at the time.

"Homafars" (the NCO Corps of the Imperial Iranian Armed Services ["IIAS" -
this included the IIAF, IIAA, and the IINA]) were - in relation - the best
paid and most priviledged personnel of the army, air force, and navy at the
time.

It's interesting that the only part of the military that joined the riots
against the Shah were - nevertheless - some of the Homafars stationed in the
Tehran area and quite a few young cadets from the IIAF Academy, which were
in the middle of their pilot-training courses, and planned later to fly
F-16s.

There were lots of claims about the lack of trained personnel in the IIAS at
the time, and some of these might also be truth as much as understandable -
especially given the fact that only the IIAF grew from 30.000 personnel in
1970 to 100.000 in 1978. However, the people chosen for the Project "Persian
King" (as the sale of F-14s to Iran was named), were the best they had;
all - including the technical personnel - were trained in the USA, and most
had at least one additional tour with the USAF, USN, IDF/AF, Luftwaffe, RAF
etc., etc. or at least the PAF. Nobody there had any kind of problems
qualifying on Tomcats.

The only problems were caused by the fact that the Pentagon was requesting
all the maintenance on sensitive pieces of the avionics to be done in the
USA - so the Iranians were not trained to do specific works. Given that for
this reason a considerable part of the supplied avionics packages was
permanently underway somewhere between Khatami AB and Calverton, the result
was that quite a part of the Iranian Tomcats were grounded already before
the revolution. The other part was grounded for purpose: they intentionaly
have purchased more than their units could need, so to have a solid
attrition reserve for the years to come (the IIAF standard was 16 planes per
squadron, plust two attrition reserves: they bought 80 F-14As for four
units). But, they needed not much time to learn about these jobs either.
Besides, the USN, just for example, would completely stop their
"consultation-activities" for the Iranian F-14-project only in 1983...

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

"Ragnar" wrote in message
link.net...

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that
the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against
Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians
altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never
fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did
they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained
technicians, spare parts, and
time.

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to school
with Iranian engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.


Not to mention clandestine US assistance in the early 1980s, plus shipments
of -54A missiles when the USN went to the -54C. It appears that they have
reverse-engineered the -54A and build an unliscensed version of Phoenix.


Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

Hobo wrote:
In article ,
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to
school with Iranian engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.

I have read that the Grumman techs pulled the
daughterboards necessary
for firing the Phoenix. That isn't solved by
building new phoenii.
Check the book Iran-Iraq War in the Air-it mentions some 70-90 firings
of Phoenix, and 50-70 kills. From MiG-25s to helos, plus Tu-16s and Tu-22s
were victims.


Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

"Matt Wiser" wrote in message news:3f762c9c@bg2....

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

"Ragnar" wrote in message
link.net...

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that
the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against
Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians
altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never
fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did
they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained
technicians, spare parts, and
time.

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to school
with Iranian engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.


Not to mention clandestine US assistance in the early 1980s, plus
shipments
of -54A missiles when the USN went to the -54C. It appears that they have
reverse-engineered the -54A and build an unliscensed version of Phoenix.

Not to mention Dr. Liao's IEEE summer intern program at Hugh's LAX.