Why Zuni?

"Elmshoot" wrote in message
...
Wow!
Fun topic that I started... I forgot that the 2.75 wasn't refered to as a
Zuni.
I guess we just called it 2.75 rockets. Ed mentions another name, I have
never
heard them refered to as Micky Mouse. Back to the original question. Why
were
the 5" rockets called Zuni?
I don't recall a ripple or salvo shot on the 2.75" but I do remember stuck
fins
they really went all over
Sparky

When I first went into the USAF in 1955 I spent several years in Air Defense
Command and NORAD where some of the aircraft were armed with the 2.75"
Folding Fin Aerial Rocket (FFAR) and I remember the nickname as being
'Mighty Mouse' but even more common was 'f far' or '2.75s'. I was surprised
when I got to SEA in 1968 and found it was a common load on the F-105 (Q-pod
on one outboard, LAU-3A on the other).

If you want to see what has become of the 2.75 see
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/hydra-70.htm for
the current model and
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ions/apkws.htm for the
possible future.

Regards,

Tex Houston

The Canadian CRV-7 was termed the "Mighty Mouse", and was typically packed
into either LAU-5002's or LAU- 5003's (In the case of RNZAF A4's).

Regards

Mike
"Jim Carriere" wrote in message
...
"Pechs1" wrote in message
I've blasted all 11(?) or so in one pod, of 2.75, on one wing, all at
once.
Really impressive, makes the A/C yaw...and they go all over the place,
particularly if ya have one where all the fins don't come out.

! ! !

Ed, '40 feet' was qualifying. But the pod rockets were sorry compared
to tube-launched ones out of the F86D and the F102. Rockets fired from
the Dog and Deuce could hit about as good as strafing. Our target on
Zulu-shima off Okinawa was 3 oil drums filled with sand stacked
together. The Dog could hit the fool things. Also, firing on the rag,
you could see the rockets cut a cross in it. We only fired 6 at a
time, though. Fired the Deuce on Patricia Target about 40 miles west
of Key West. It was an old WW2 destroyer beached by the Marquesas
Keys. WE went down to Homestead for the Cuban Crisis. Once down there
someone realized we needed the rocket tubes wired up - they'd clipped
the leads when we got the GAR11/AIM26A (Fat Falcon). Once that was
done, some kind soul decided they needed to be tested. So we fired
each of our 20 Deuces twice on Pat Target - what? No practice rockets
available? Okay, use ones with live warheads. Now, a 2.75 FFAR is
equivalent to a 75mm HE round - when we got through, what had looked
like the bridge of a ship was now a pile of scrap from. 20x12x2=480
rockets. (12 a sortie because the innermost 6 tubes -2 RX per tube-
were lost because of the girth of the Gar11.) Last time I saw Pattie
Target was in 1980 - it was a rusted layer of iron we had to chase
fishermen off of to bomb it with the deadly BDU33s and Mk106s. Mel
Fisher's boat marked the entry to the nuke run-in while salving the
Atocha galleon.
Walt BJ

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:20:29 -0500, Pechs1 wrote:

Jim- What did a salvo launch look like? Was it a tight pattern, or
were there a
few strays? BRBR

I've blasted all 11(?) or so in one pod, of 2.75, on one wing, all at
once. Really impressive, makes the A/C yaw...and they go all over the
place, particularly if ya have one where all the fins don't come out.

An acquaintance of mine was an A4 driver in SEA.
Said one time the mission he got the most satisfaction out
of was flying cover for rescue packages. His favorite load out
was a pile of Zunis. Said they tended to keep the enemies'
head down like nothing else.

IBM

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I know CEP but what is CEA?

WDA



end

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:05:27 -0500, "Jim Carriere"
wrote:

2.75FFAR-

I've heard them called "Mickey Mouse" rockets. Not sure if that ever
caught
on in naval aviation though...

I carried them fairly often in the USAF, but never heard a nickname
other than "2.75's" or simply rockets.

What did a salvo launch look like? Was it a tight pattern, or were there
a
few strays?

Typically we carried them in the LAU-3 pod which held 19 rockets.
There was an intervelometer that spaced the firing, but all 19 were
released in one pass. The interval was very short, but insured
nose/tail clearance and minimized fratricide between the rockets.

One load for the F-105 used a C/L tank and four LAU-3 pods--one on
each wing pylon. Impressive to fire all four in one pass.

We also used 2.75s with willy-pete warheads fired from the LAU-32, a
7-rocket pod. They fired singles and were quite accurate. The secret
of accuracy is to know the delivery parameters and keep any post-burn
trajectory to a minimum.

Occasionally a rocket fin would fail to deploy and then you'd see a
corkscrew exhaust trail. In qualification on a controlled range,
typically a practice bomb dispenser carried two or four 2.75s, fired
singly for score. A "wild rocket" call would negate the unscorable
from your records if you got a bad fin.

Qualification criteria were less than for dive bomb. Don't recall
exactly what it was--I'm thinking around 40 feet CEA.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:15:31 GMT, "W. D. Allen Sr."
wrote:

I know CEP but what is CEA?

WDA
Circular Error Probable--a prediction of accuracy.
Circular Error Average--a record of delivery accuracy averaged.

The CEP tells you what a weapon might do, the CEA tells you how well,
I've been shooting.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

From the China Lake website:

"China Lake's 5-inch Zuni rocket was heavily used over the years. China Lake
was the lead laboratory for the 2.75 and Zuni developments. The Zuni, as
well as some other early unguided rockets, was originally conceived as an
air-to-air weapon, but the rocket's role evolved into that of an
air-to-ground weapon. Interestingly, the Zuni shot down a MiG-15 early in
the Vietnam War when the MiG let itself get ahead of an A1 Skyraider that
was trying to evade it. The Skyraider fired a Zuni and scored a hit. (circa
1956) "

So in response to the original poster's question...I don't know why they
called it Zuni, but someone who worked at China Lake in the 1950s would
probably know the answer. Or perhaps a current day China Laker who is
familiar with the history.

JD

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:48:57 GMT, "Joe Delphi"
wrote:

From the China Lake website:

"China Lake's 5-inch Zuni rocket was heavily used over the years. China Lake
was the lead laboratory for the 2.75 and Zuni developments. The Zuni, as
well as some other early unguided rockets, was originally conceived as an
air-to-air weapon, but the rocket's role evolved into that of an
air-to-ground weapon. Interestingly, the Zuni shot down a MiG-15 early in
the Vietnam War when the MiG let itself get ahead of an A1 Skyraider that
was trying to evade it. The Skyraider fired a Zuni and scored a hit. (circa
1956) "

Hope the China Lake folks aren't contending that MiG-15s were flying
in the Vietnam War, or that the US was involved in combat in the air
in 1956. That's the way urban legends get started.

Should be a MiG-17, and much more likely "circa 1965".



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Joe Delphi" wrote in message

From the China Lake website:

"China Lake's 5-inch Zuni rocket was heavily used over the years. China
Lake
was the lead laboratory for the 2.75 and Zuni developments. The Zuni, as
well as some other early unguided rockets, was originally conceived as an
air-to-air weapon, but the rocket's role evolved into that of an
air-to-ground weapon."

It was also used as an ASW weapon on the S2, as a replacement for the HVAR.
I don't know if it was also carried by P2 and P3.

For semi-annual quals we usually carried 2.75s in pods (7 or 9, IIRC).
ROCKEXs were always interesting, as LANTFLT Stoofs were not generally seen
as air-ground weapons platforms and support for that part of the aircraft's
weapons system (material and personnel training) was often not a high
priority. There seemed to be an about equal probablity of firing one, more
then one, the whole pod, or just seeing the pod separate from the aircraft
when the "R" button was pushed (becoming "White Death From Above" for
whatever marine life was below).

Interestingly, the Zuni shot down a MiG-15 early in
the Vietnam War when the MiG let itself get ahead of an A1 Skyraider that
was trying to evade it. The Skyraider fired a Zuni and scored a hit.
(circa
1956) "

As noted below they are about a decade off, here!g

Bill Kambic

If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or
unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist,
culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist,
sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist,
phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of
political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you
to get over it.

Its been many moons since I fired a rocket (most inventories got combat
coded due to limited #s years ago), but...

....it was a Zuni pod at night, on the goggles -- ya-bleeping-hoo! When
fired in singles or small numbers, 2.75s always sounded like bottle rockets
(from the cockpit). Zunis were an entirely different animal.

A technical question for those that might know -- refresh my aging memory --
isn't the Zuni motor the same as that used on the Sidewinder...?

"Jim Carriere" wrote in message
...
"Pechs1" wrote in message
I've blasted all 11(?) or so in one pod, of 2.75, on one wing, all at
once.
Really impressive, makes the A/C yaw...and they go all over the place,
particularly if ya have one where all the fins don't come out.

! ! !