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#11
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
On Oct 25, 12:18*am, Peter wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:07:26 -0700, Mike wrote: On Oct 25, 12:01*am, Peter wrote: I'm hoping to tap the voice of experience... I've been thinking about buying a glider ever since I moved to the US, its been 10 years now and I'm still waiting to get my Green card... yay go USA... anyway... bitterness aside... I know that I can't register an Aircraft on the US register unless its owned by a US entity (person or corporation, majority),... or a Greencard holder... bitter a little. BUT... Is there anything to stop me buying one and transferring it the the UK register, but keeping it here and having my father (a UK based aircraft inspector) come over and give it its annual airworthiness on the UK register and fly it that way ? What would be the process, would I have to get an export CofA and go through all that rigmarole and then do the Uk equivalent to transfer the registration, even thought he aircraft is not actually being exported ? And I would eventually (hopefully some decade soon) be reversing the process once I get my Greencard. Any other common means for a non-US citizen to own an aircraft legally in the US. I don;t want to bend any rules and I'd rather not put a $50-80K glider on teh register under someone elses name (and effectively make them liable for any legal/tax issues), as well as have to trust someone with that much of an asset that I'd have to basically lose legal rights to to transfer to them legally. Or should I pack up my stuff and head back to blighty... :-) Peter Is it legal for you to lease a sailplane? I'd actually not thought of that, but since I'm looking at second hand gliders, I don't think its an option ... is it ?, can I get a lease on a used aircraft... ? Peter Yes sometimes people will lease used sailplanes. I would check with some of the commercial glider operations in the country, to see if they know anyone willing to lease a sailplane. |
#12
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
You just have to get creative without making it complicated. Here are
some ideas: These should occur concurrently: 1. Lend the purchase money to a US citizen for 1 dollar in interest a year, who then buys the plane in his/her name 2. Lease it back from him or her for 1 dollar a year with an option to buy it in exchange for canceling the loan. Yo also have a right or first refusal in he/she tries to sell. The agreement will also stipulate that if he/she sells before you exercise the option, that you receive the sales proceeds. 3. In the lease agreement, you also agree to assume all liabilities, taxes, insurance, maintenance etc...while you operate it 4. When you sell, you a) buy it back by canceling the loan b) sell it concurrently with the purchase without registering it in your name Corporation I think a US corporation needs a social security number to be attached to it to start it. But later, I think a foreigner can "buy" it out 100%. You can do it that way as well I think and run everything under the corporation. You'd need to file yearly corporate returns. If it's just for the glider, the extra work paperwork for taxes would be minimal. Register in UK and fly in USA Good luck |
#13
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
Peter wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:28:40 -0700, AK wrote: On Oct 25, 2:01 am, Peter wrote: .... I've been thinking about buying a glider ever since I moved to the US, its been 10 years now and I'm still waiting to get my Green card... yay go USA... anyway... bitterness aside... I know that I can't register an Aircraft on the US register unless its owned by a US entity (person or corporation, majority),... or a Greencard holder... bitter a little. BUT... Is there anything to stop me buying one and transferring it the the UK register, but keeping it here and having my father (a UK based aircraft inspector) come over and give it its annual airworthiness on the UK register and fly it that way ? What would be the process, would I have to get an export CofA and go through all that rigmarole and then do the Uk equivalent to transfer the registration, even thought he aircraft is not actually being exported ? And I would eventually (hopefully some decade soon) be reversing the process once I get my Greencard. Any other common means for a non-US citizen to own an aircraft legally in the US. I don;t want to bend any rules and I'd rather not put a $50-80K glider on teh register under someone elses name (and effectively make them liable for any legal/tax issues), as well as have to trust someone with that much of an asset that I'd have to basically lose legal rights to to transfer to them legally. Or should I pack up my stuff and head back to blighty... :-) Peter You can register a corporation and make the corporation own the glider. A UK diplomat did that when he lived in the U.S. I bought my last glider from him. Strictly speaking, as far as I know, the corporation has to be majority owned by Americans... so I'm no better off, the corporation and therefore...other people... have to own and take liability for the aircraft.. no better than a three way partnership with two americans, and I'd have the downside of having to file corporate tax papers each year.. As far as I've seen the System can't be circumvented... I suppose thats the idea anyway. It would be better if you listened a little more receptively. AK (I think it was) wrote that you need a US corporation. This indeed the case. You responded, "It needs to be majority owned by Americans." This is indeed the case. So now, find a local lawyer in a one man shop, and ask him to set up a corporation for you. The cost will be $200 or $300 on up. Let him worry about the majority ownership versus the control of this aircraft. Then register on the US register. There used to be an issue about the station radio license for a foreign national, but I think this has now gone away. Seek advice from an instructor in a busy school for the loose ends re radio etc. I take it that you have acquired an FAA license on the basis of a UK license? This is an allowable. Otherwise, you have an FAA license ab initio, I suppose. Either way, it's not a big deal. You can actually call the FAA licensing branch to ask for advice. Surprize! Brian W |
#14
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
Charlie Papa wrote:
I'm a Canadian, but post most of my flying in my own ship in Florida during the winter. I have mused on US registration for a while, and my approach would be to check with a lawyer the following: Create a Delaware corporation (great liability protection and no sales tax) online cheaply. Lend the purchase price to the corporation as a debenture, secured by a lien on the glider. Lease it to yourself for $1/year net (you pay the maintenance and insurance), plus the costs for corporate filings, with an option to buy for the purchase price. You’ll need a US citizen to be the shareholder and President. He can have the $1. One attraction of the US registration to me is the no-medical-required glider licence. I wrote the exam and did the flight test last year to get one, and it was very timely as Transport Canada Licensing pulled my medical when I contracted throat cancer this summer. I could even take this glider to Canada and fly it there on the US ticket. I'll follow the thread to see what you come up with. This idea of a debenture and a lien etcetera etcetera is way more clockwork than the process needs. Delaware corporation? KISS remember? Talk to a one man lawyer - preferably a hungry one.... There is a delay of several weeks before the pieces come together. It doesn't take long, and you don't need a financial whiz. Brian W |
#15
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
Way, WAY too much complication.
1) Expect to put less than $500 into a lawyer's efforts to set up a corporation. 2) Check with an experienced instructor for any details of licensing you need to handle. (I don't think there ARE any, these days...) Brian W tommytoyz wrote: You just have to get creative without making it complicated. Here are some ideas: These should occur concurrently: 1. Lend the purchase money to a US citizen for 1 dollar in interest a year, who then buys the plane in his/her name 2. Lease it back from him or her for 1 dollar a year with an option to buy it in exchange for canceling the loan. Yo also have a right or first refusal in he/she tries to sell. The agreement will also stipulate that if he/she sells before you exercise the option, that you receive the sales proceeds. 3. In the lease agreement, you also agree to assume all liabilities, taxes, insurance, maintenance etc...while you operate it 4. When you sell, you a) buy it back by canceling the loan b) sell it concurrently with the purchase without registering it in your name Corporation I think a US corporation needs a social security number to be attached to it to start it. But later, I think a foreigner can "buy" it out 100%. You can do it that way as well I think and run everything under the corporation. You'd need to file yearly corporate returns. If it's just for the glider, the extra work paperwork for taxes would be minimal. Register in UK and fly in USA Good luck |
#16
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
On Oct 24, 10:01*pm, Peter wrote:
I'm hoping to tap the voice of experience... I've been thinking about buying a glider ever since I moved to the US, its been 10 years now and I'm still waiting to get my Green card... yay go USA... anyway... bitterness aside... I know that I can't register an Aircraft on the US register unless its owned by a US entity (person or corporation, majority),... or a Greencard holder... bitter a little. BUT... Is there anything to stop me buying one and transferring it the the UK register, but keeping it here and having my father (a UK based aircraft inspector) come over and give it its annual airworthiness on the UK register and fly it that way ? What would be the process, would I have to get an export CofA and go through all that rigmarole and then do the Uk equivalent to transfer the registration, even thought he aircraft is not actually being exported ? And I would eventually (hopefully some decade soon) be reversing the process once I get my Greencard. Any other common means for a non-US citizen to own an aircraft legally in the US. I don;t want to bend any rules and I'd rather not put a $50-80K glider on teh register under someone elses name (and effectively make them liable for any legal/tax issues), as well as have to trust someone with that much of an asset that I'd have to basically lose legal rights to to transfer to them legally. Or should I pack up my stuff and head back to blighty... :-) Peter I've known people do this, register the sailplane in their native country. One snag might be if the glider you are buying has an experimental cert. In the US experimental certs only allow operation withing US borders, don't know how the UK works. |
#17
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
I sold a glider to a French pilot stationed temporarily in the US.
It's been nearly 20 years but as I recall, he set up a Delaware corporation to buy and own the glider. It was pretty straightforward. I Googled the subject and came up with the following link to a company that seems to offer this as a service: http://www.global-inter.net/aircraft.html#nonresident I'm not recommending them nor have I checked out the statements they make regarding eligibility of non-U.S. citizens to set up a Delaware corp or LLC. I've read elsewhere that not only is no state income tax due in Delaware but so long as the corp isn't actually doing business in Delaware, no tax return needs to be filed. I'm not sure about whether a federal tax return must be filed annually. In other states such as my own business-friendly state of New Jersey, the minimum tax each year is hundreds of dollars even if there's no activity or assets so you should check this out. The above site also states that when it comes time to sell the glider, the purchaser can simply buy the shares of the corporation from you and avoid (1) paying sales tax again on the glider, and (2) having to reregister the aircraft with the FAA. Again, I haven't checked these out but, if true, these could add up to a lot of money saved for the purchaser. As always with anything like this, get some expert advice. You have more choices now than when my glider was sold: a corporation vs. an LLC, for example. Good luck. Chip Bearden ASW 24 "JB" USA |
#18
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:30:46 -0700, Chip Bearden wrote:
I sold a glider to a French pilot stationed temporarily in the US. It's been nearly 20 years but as I recall, he set up a Delaware corporation to buy and own the glider. It was pretty straightforward. I Googled the subject and came up with the following link to a company that seems to offer this as a service: http://www.global-inter.net/aircraft.html#nonresident I'm not recommending them nor have I checked out the statements they make regarding eligibility of non-U.S. citizens to set up a Delaware corp or LLC. I've read elsewhere that not only is no state income tax due in Delaware but so long as the corp isn't actually doing business in Delaware, no tax return needs to be filed. I'm not sure about whether a federal tax return must be filed annually. In other states such as my own business-friendly state of New Jersey, the minimum tax each year is hundreds of dollars even if there's no activity or assets so you should check this out. The above site also states that when it comes time to sell the glider, the purchaser can simply buy the shares of the corporation from you and avoid (1) paying sales tax again on the glider, and (2) having to reregister the aircraft with the FAA. Again, I haven't checked these out but, if true, these could add up to a lot of money saved for the purchaser. As always with anything like this, get some expert advice. You have more choices now than when my glider was sold: a corporation vs. an LLC, for example. Good luck. Chip Bearden ASW 24 "JB" USA Chip, Thank you, that looks like it clears up the issue of whether the corporation needs to be majority owned by US citizens, from the aircraft registration eligibility requirements, the fourth option... "a non-citizen corporation lawfully organized and doing business under the laws of the U.S. or one of the States as long as the aircraft is based and primarily used in the U.S. (60% of all flight hours must be from flights starting and ending within the U.S.) An address for all records or flight hours must me available for inspection." Specifically allows non-citizen ownership of aircraft based and operating in the US...awesome. Now... I just have to find that dream glider. Thank you for the pointer, thats a very succinct website that describes the options, pro's and (few) cons, even for US citizens, of registering the aircraft through a corporation. Peter |
#19
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US resident , no greencard, buying a glider in the US
Peter wrote:
Chip, Thank you, that looks like it clears up the issue of whether the corporation needs to be majority owned by US citizens, from the aircraft registration eligibility requirements, the fourth option... "a non-citizen corporation lawfully organized and doing business under the laws of the U.S. or one of the States as long as the aircraft is based and primarily used in the U.S. (60% of all flight hours must be from flights starting and ending within the U.S.) An address for all records or flight hours must me available for inspection." Specifically allows non-citizen ownership of aircraft based and operating in the US...awesome. Now... I just have to find that dream glider. Thank you for the pointer, thats a very succinct website that describes the options, pro's and (few) cons, even for US citizens, of registering the aircraft through a corporation. Peter More details are he http://tinyurl.com/ylrxqru |
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