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#11
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Erik Pfeister wrote:
And we thought WWII was over! Someone please tell this chap. We've tried. He's a stubborn cuss. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN http://www.mortimerschnerd.com |
#12
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In article ,
"R Haskin" wrote: If you've got a parachute, what are you ditching for, anyway? Jumping out is a lit less risky than ditching a fixed-gear airplane which will almost surely flip over once it touches down... I'm assuming you've never made a parachute jump into water. I have, you can die quite easily unless you know what you're doing. And, most people who would be wearing a parachute (not including the military here) would have a rig that has NO quick disconnects for the risers or harness which is going to make things even harder. I don't believe the stats are going to support your statement that the airplane will "almost surely flip over". If you fly over water you should attend a survival course that teaches ditching evacuation using a "dilbert dunker" type device. Very enlightening, after doing so I quit flying over water. G -- Dale L. Falk There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing around with airplanes. http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html |
#13
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message news:blosl3$jie$1 "QDurham" wrote in message ... How do you put 'her' down? It seems to have happened to 3 ex FAA aircrew yesterday when they had to ditch their Cessna 172 after its engine failed over the Western Channel All 3 were picked up by a fishing boat and one reported having to make an underwater escape from the sinking aircraft Given that the youngest of them was 79 they did rather well I alos seem too have seen some footage of several cessna 172 type a/c ditching, The one that stands out the gentelman made a beautiful ditching the a/c pitched forward but reamained upright for several minutes |
#14
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On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:18:21 GMT, "william cogswell"
wrote: "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message news:blosl3$jie$1 "QDurham" wrote in message ... How do you put 'her' down? It seems to have happened to 3 ex FAA aircrew yesterday when they had to ditch their Cessna 172 after its engine failed over the Western Channel All 3 were picked up by a fishing boat and one reported having to make an underwater escape from the sinking aircraft Given that the youngest of them was 79 they did rather well I alos seem too have seen some footage of several cessna 172 type a/c ditching, The one that stands out the gentelman made a beautiful ditching the a/c pitched forward but reamained upright for several minutes Of course now you can buy a chute for your AIRPLANE! I don't know if any of you have seen them, but they mount on top of the wing, and are controlled from the cockpit. They were originally designed for Cessna drivers going over the Sierra, where the "margin for error" is about zero. If used by someone flying over water they would allow for a zero airspeed ditching. Al Minyard |
#15
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"william cogswell" wrote:
I alos seem too have seen some footage of several cessna 172 type a/c ditching, The one that stands out the gentelman made a beautiful ditching the a/c pitched forward but reamained upright for several minutes On a tricycle, due to the CG location aft of the main landing gear when the main wheels impact the water surface this usually forces the nosewheel down into the drink and causes the A/C to immediately tumble end over end in the water. On a taildragger, due to the CG location aft of the main landing gear, a taildragger can literally lightly skim the water with the mains w/o instantly flipping over instantly like a tricycle would. Although there may be a slight pitching down motion when the main wheels skim the surface, a skillful taildragger pilot is able to delicately balance this nose down moment with that of the aft CG induced tail low moment. Of course, after the second or third skip and the taildragger loses airflow over the wings and control surfaces, he too is gonna tumble end over end regardless of skill. The first thing I noticed when the nose gear dropped inadvertantly on an experimental amphib (open-cockpit) that I had just landed in a fresh water lake was the bow of the floats submarining into the drink. Since it was a hot day, the cold water rushing up to chest level was sorta' refreshing, actually. I simply came off the throttle and let the craft re-surface via the buoyancy of the pontoons, manually raised the nose-gear and launched again. The other time I was forced down over a swamp when the fan stopped. I had just enough altitude to make two turns -- one 90-deg turn towards civilization and one more 90-deg. turn into the wind. After one final quick tug on my seatbelt for good measure, the next thing I knew I was upside down hanging from the belt. I walked (er' sloshed and waded) away with nothing more than a nasty bruise across my groin where the belt held me. Great fun was had by all during the recovery and salvage operation but others haven't been quite so lucky. The bottom line is that there are too many variables to answer the original question asking what to do when ditching in a calm sea with a fixed landing gear airplane. Tons of material regarding ditching procedures out there, however, as others have pointed out in this thread, "not panicking" is the #1 priority. Perhaps the next priority would be to make your own Dilbert Dunker training apparatus and practice underwater egress procedures and techniques before you go fly over water. |
#16
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Mike Marron wrote:
"william cogswell" wrote: I alos seem too have seen some footage of several cessna 172 type a/c ditching, The one that stands out the gentelman made a beautiful ditching the a/c pitched forward but reamained upright for several minutes On a tricycle, due to the CG location aft of the main landing gear when the main wheels impact the water surface this usually forces the nosewheel down into the drink and causes the A/C to immediately tumble end over end in the water. Correction: that should read, "...due to the FORWARD CG (relative to the mains) on a tri-gear A/C the nosewheel will be forced down into the drink and cause the hapless A/C to immediately tumble end over end. On a taildragger, due to the CG location aft of the main landing gear, a taildragger can literally lightly skim the water with the mains w/o instantly flipping over instantly like a tricycle would. Although there may be a slight pitching down motion when the main wheels skim the surface, a skillful taildragger pilot is able to delicately balance this nose down moment with that of the aft CG induced tail low moment. Of course, after the second or third skip and the taildragger loses airflow over the wings and control surfaces, he too is gonna tumble end over end regardless of skill. The first thing I noticed when the nose gear dropped inadvertantly on an experimental amphib (open-cockpit) that I had just landed in a fresh water lake was the bow of the floats submarining into the drink. Since it was a hot day, the cold water rushing up to chest level was sorta' refreshing, actually. I simply came off the throttle and let the craft re-surface via the buoyancy of the pontoons, manually raised the nose-gear and launched again. The other time I was forced down over a swamp when the fan stopped. I had just enough altitude to make two turns -- one 90-deg turn towards civilization and one more 90-deg. turn into the wind. After one final quick tug on my seatbelt for good measure, the next thing I knew I was upside down hanging from the belt. I walked (er' sloshed and waded) away with nothing more than a nasty bruise across my groin where the belt held me. Great fun was had by all during the recovery and salvage operation but others haven't been quite so lucky. The bottom line is that there are too many variables to answer the original question asking what to do when ditching in a calm sea with a fixed landing gear airplane. Tons of material regarding ditching procedures out there, however, as others have pointed out in this thread, "not panicking" is the #1 priority. Perhaps the next priority would be to make your own Dilbert Dunker training apparatus and practice underwater egress procedures and techniques before you go fly over water. |
#17
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Alan Minyard wrote:
Of course now you can buy a chute for your AIRPLANE! I don't know if any of you have seen them, but they mount on top of the wing, and are controlled from the cockpit. They were originally designed for Cessna drivers going over the Sierra, where the "margin for error" is about zero. If used by someone flying over water they would allow for a zero airspeed ditching. We've been flying with Ballistic Recovery Systems (BR$) on light sport aircraft for many years. The Cessna 172, -152, Cirrus, etc. BR$ chutes for GA aircraft are relatively new: http://www.airplaneparachutes.com/BRS29.htm Lots of pros/cons to the BR$ issue. The priceless value of human life aside, any chute large enough to lower a Cessna 172 plus humans/baggage, etc. to earth is probably worth more $$$ than the 172 itself (unless it's a brand new '03 $kyhawk Millenium). Backpack parachutes are essentially worthless in my line of business (due to the low altitudes and inability free yourself the debris of the aircraft crumpling around you) however, I'm comfortable flying with or without a ballistic chute on my bird. I've owned two of them and to me they're 1) pricy 2) heavy and, 3) dangerous (folks have survived the crash only to die screaming in the treetops while being burned by the pyrotechnics). An ACES, Martin Baker even a Weber or Yankee extraction system would sure be nice to have, tho. |
#18
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In article ,
Mike Marron wrote: (folks have survived the crash only to die screaming in the treetops while being burned by the pyrotechnics) What pryotechnics? The charge that deployed the chute? That is expended when the chute is fired. Sounds like urban legend. -- Dale L. Falk There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing around with airplanes. http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html |
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