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"Out of fuel, out of hope: 'Help, I'm in the water'"



 
 
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  #81  
Old April 29th 05, 06:42 PM
Dylan Smith
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In article , Matt Barrow wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a small inflatable raft (2-4 person) that would be
small enough to carry onboard an aircraft? I figure it would keep you out of
the water.


Yes, we carry them all the time. A friend of mine has a six-person
covered raft. In its container, it's smaller than the bag I carry my
charts and other bits and pieces in (although it's considerably denser!)
I would imagine Sporty's sell them over there - here they are pretty
common as you might expect. The one thing they aren't is cheap.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"
  #82  
Old April 29th 05, 06:50 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...

A westbound 575 nm is definitely outside the range of an Archer.
Eastbound might be do-able with a strong tailwind.


The 1976 "Flying Annual & Buyer's Guide" gives the range with maximum fuel
of the Archer II as 682 NM at 75% power and 838 NM at 55% power. Range
figures are given with no allowance for taxi, climb to cruising altitude, or
reserve.



  #83  
Old April 29th 05, 06:59 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...

On the topic of water crossing, I cannot undertake any cross country
flights without crossing (usually around 60nm of) the Irish Sea.
However, for crossing any body of water like this, I want:

1. Fuel. Enough to cross the Irish Sea *and* turn around and get back to
whichever shore I left from plus another 45 minutes. So if Ronaldsway is
fogged in (as it's prone to do) on a return trip from the UK, I can turn
around and land somewhere like Blackpool and have some loitering time.
That is the absolute minimum fuel. Leaving, I prefer to have full tanks.

2. Lifejackets that can be worn whilst PIC. There are lifejackets made
for this purpose.

3. A life raft. The Irish Sea probably isn't as cold as Lake Michigan
due to the Gulf Stream, but it's still cold enough to be a problem
especially in the winter.

4. If it's VMC, keep an eye out for boats, ships and oil platforms. If a
ditching has to be made try and ditch as close to the vessel as
possible. (Small boats are probably the best, if they see you they are
probably the most likely to be able to alter course to pick you up)

Ditching is eminently survivable (although very unpleasant) if you're
prepared. There is a study out there that shows successful egress in the
vast (at least 90%) of ditchings. If you have life jackets and rafts,
you're likely to then last long enough for the lifeboat or helicopter
to arrive. Crossing water is NOT nuts, you just have to first not be in
denial that there is a possibility of Bad Stuff Happening and a need to
ditch, and then be prepared for that eventuality. Virtually every pilot
here does it routinely.

It's interesting to note that the last few planes that have gone down
whilst making the crossing from the Isle of Man have been light twins -
one due to fuel exhaustion (the other two in the last few years were one
due to spatial disorientation in IMC and one due to pilot
incapacitation).


If you're operating to or from an island crossing water is unavoidable. But
the pilot in this recent episode could have avoided overwater flight
entirely. The distance between Hamilton and Watertown is 580 miles via
direct. A course north of Lake Erie and south of Lake Michigan would add
about 70 miles, a course south of both lakes would add about 80 miles.


  #84  
Old April 29th 05, 07:04 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

If the water had been 32 degrees F (instead of 40), he could have
walked to shore. :-)


If the water had been 32 degrees F instead of 40 it would have been 8
degrees colder, but it still would have been liquid.


  #85  
Old April 29th 05, 07:12 PM
Larry Dighera
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Long day, thin air, monotony, warm environment, probably little recent
nourishment, ... You used up one of your priceless luck-cards.

It would be interesting to know your wife's response when you related
this story to her.

Thanks for your candor, and I'm glad you lived to share your story.


On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:06:37 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote in
::

I damn sure had to be home or I'd face some dire consequences.


A PIC _must_ ignore personal and/or social pressure during flight
planning. It's a difficult lesson to learn, and often difficult and
unpopular to scrub a flight in the face of those who make such demands
of the PIC. (JFK Jr comes to mind.) But the PIC bears the final
responsibility for the safety of the flight and those over whom he
navigates. Only the PIC is informed and competent to make the
go/no-go decision. His fear of retribution is often unfounded, and
those he perceives as demanding the flight proceed are usually
thankful he possesses the self-confidence and professional skills and
attitude to do what is prudent and correct in the face of social
pressure.

During preflight planning, whenever we find ourselves considering the
impact our go/no-go decision may have on passengers, business, or
personal relations, it should send up a red flag.


  #86  
Old April 29th 05, 07:13 PM
Trent Moorehead
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"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

I didn't tell my wife what happened until some weeks later, but I came

damn
close to having some much more fatal consequences, infinitely worse that
what I would have encountered from my wife if I got home Saturday morning.


Matt, thanks for posting your experience. You're right, loved ones might get
mad if you don't show on time, but they will get over it. Imagine how long
it would take for them to get over your death.

-Trent
PP-ASEL


  #87  
Old April 29th 05, 07:17 PM
Larry Dighera
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On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:04:28 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net::


If the water had been 32 degrees F instead of 40 it would have been 8
degrees colder, but it still would have been liquid.


I thought it was fresh water, not salty. Or are you referring to the
agitation from wind keeping it liquid?

  #88  
Old April 29th 05, 07:36 PM
Michael 182
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"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

excellent post snipped

Matt


Amazing story - you are a lucky man. Personally, I think your biggest
mistake is getting up at 5:30 every morning - it can only lead to bad things


Seriously, I fly out of Longmont, and you've given me a new appreciation of
fatigue when flying home.

Michael


  #89  
Old April 29th 05, 07:38 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

I thought it was fresh water, not salty.


It is. Were you under the impression that fresh water exists only as a
solid at 32F?



Or are you referring to the agitation from wind keeping it liquid?


That's part of it. Another part of it is the way ice forms on lakes and how
much ice it takes to support how much weight.


  #90  
Old April 29th 05, 07:55 PM
Gene Seibel
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That's one I haven't done. Came close to sleeping when Sue was flying
the other day, but even that is difficult for me. That well placed bit
of turbulence was certainly a good thing for you.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

 




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