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China's stealth jet -J-20
On 1/11/2011 12:24 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article , wrote: On Jan 7, 2:59 pm, "Keith wrote: On of the problems when dealing with a socity like China is that its hard to know when they have produced a prototype. They tend to look less tolerantly on plane spotters than western natons. Keith, this ignorant civilian would like to know if it is possible for the Chinese to have a good understanding of what is needed to develop this aircraft fully as a result of stealing the information (i.e., hacking military computers)? Cheers . . . J. They have some very good engineers who could come up with some real innovations. That said, if they depend on stolen information, it would be very easy to plant deliberate misinformation in places they can hack (with some effort). That is the flaw in stealind information. Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#2
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China's stealth jet -J-20
Dan wrote:
On 1/11/2011 12:24 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article , wrote: On Jan 7, 2:59 pm, "Keith wrote: On of the problems when dealing with a socity like China is that its hard to know when they have produced a prototype. They tend to look less tolerantly on plane spotters than western natons. Keith, this ignorant civilian would like to know if it is possible for the Chinese to have a good understanding of what is needed to develop this aircraft fully as a result of stealing the information (i.e., hacking military computers)? Cheers . . . J. They have some very good engineers who could come up with some real innovations. That said, if they depend on stolen information, it would be very easy to plant deliberate misinformation in places they can hack (with some effort). That is the flaw in stealind information. Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Reverse engineering. Ever heard of it? ;-) |
#3
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China's stealth jet -J-20
On 1/11/2011 12:57 PM, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
Dan wrote: On 1/11/2011 12:24 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article , wrote: On Jan 7, 2:59 pm, "Keith wrote: On of the problems when dealing with a socity like China is that its hard to know when they have produced a prototype. They tend to look less tolerantly on plane spotters than western natons. Keith, this ignorant civilian would like to know if it is possible for the Chinese to have a good understanding of what is needed to develop this aircraft fully as a result of stealing the information (i.e., hacking military computers)? Cheers . . . J. They have some very good engineers who could come up with some real innovations. That said, if they depend on stolen information, it would be very easy to plant deliberate misinformation in places they can hack (with some effort). That is the flaw in stealind information. Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Reverse engineering. Ever heard of it? ;-) Yah, ask Toyota, Nissan and Honda how well that went when they stole Chrysler blind on the throttle. It made Chrysler have to recall a couple of hundred thousand cars just to make sure that their system was good. It was. Toyota and other Japanese companies bought the same equipment from the same suppliers. The problem was, the control unit was stupid and they had to reverse engineer the coding. They blew it. In the Chrysler, there is a build in system where if something goes wrong with the controller it disengages the throttle. And if you tap the brake, it disengages the throttle. Guess what, they left out those last two items and them lied to the public and Congress about it. Yes, let them reverse engineer that way there is more likelihood that they will screw the pooch. |
#4
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China's stealth jet -J-20
On Jan 11, 12:57*pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D."
wrote: Dan wrote: On 1/11/2011 12:24 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article , * *wrote: On Jan 7, 2:59 pm, "Keith *wrote: On of the problems when dealing with a socity like China is that its hard to know when they have produced a prototype. They tend to look less tolerantly on plane spotters than western natons. Keith, this ignorant civilian would like to know if it is possible for the Chinese to have a good understanding of what is needed to develop this aircraft fully as a result of stealing the information (i.e., hacking military computers)? Cheers . . . J. They have some very good engineers who could come up with some real innovations. That said, if they depend on stolen information, it would be very easy to plant deliberate misinformation in places they can hack (with some effort). That is the flaw in stealind information. * Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Reverse engineering. *Ever heard of it? ;-) You obviously haven't...**** eating trolls like you and the nazi's around here need to **** off. |
#5
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China's stealth jet -J-20
On 1/11/2011 1:57 PM, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
Dan wrote: On 1/11/2011 12:24 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article , wrote: On Jan 7, 2:59 pm, "Keith wrote: On of the problems when dealing with a socity like China is that its hard to know when they have produced a prototype. They tend to look less tolerantly on plane spotters than western natons. Keith, this ignorant civilian would like to know if it is possible for the Chinese to have a good understanding of what is needed to develop this aircraft fully as a result of stealing the information (i.e., hacking military computers)? Cheers . . . J. They have some very good engineers who could come up with some real innovations. That said, if they depend on stolen information, it would be very easy to plant deliberate misinformation in places they can hack (with some effort). That is the flaw in stealind information. Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Reverse engineering. Ever heard of it? ;-) Ever heard of getting a degree from a university that teaches reading for comprehension? Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#6
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China's stealth jet -J-20
On Jan 11, 2:57*pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D."
wrote: Reverse engineering. *Ever heard of it? ;-)- Ever done it? I have, for training as a semiconductor R&D tech. The good stuff is in the software. |
#7
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China's stealth jet -J-20
On 11/01/2011 18:53, Dan wrote:
{snip} Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The danger with that one is that our own aeroplanes have the save flaw. Andrew Swallow |
#8
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China's stealth jet -J-20
On 1/11/2011 4:42 PM, Andrew Swallow wrote:
On 11/01/2011 18:53, Dan wrote: {snip} Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The danger with that one is that our own aeroplanes have the save flaw. Andrew Swallow Not if done right. Letting the bad guys assume you use it doesn't mean you have to actually do so. Think of the phantom army Patton ran prior to Overlord. The Nazis assumed it existed. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#9
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China's stealth jet -J-20
On Jan 11, 5:42*pm, Andrew Swallow wrote:
On 11/01/2011 18:53, Dan wrote: {snip} Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The danger with that one is that our own aeroplanes have the save flaw. Andrew Swallow This is a good example of modern tech: http://www.xilinx.com/products/virtex6q/index.htm You draw a schematic or specification, simulate it, then compile it into a configuration file that (you hope) turns the generic Xilinx chip into a circuit that implements your design. It's like a computer program done in hardware. The configuration file is -seriously- encrypted and loads at power-up, and is lost when the power shuts off. The individual elements of the ones I used were composed of 5-input gates that could duplicate any logic function or Karnaugh map (they actually used look-up tables) followed by master-slave D-type flip- flops. If you know how to design computer logic that's all you need to do anything. When the first try didn't work because the Air Force radio it controlled didn't meet its own specs, I needed only 10 minutes to fix it. Seriously, if you have the program manager's confidence that's how fast and easy it can be to fix problems. Had it been deployed I could have E-mailed the files out, like a Windows Update or BIOS upgrade to a computer. .. |
#10
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China's stealth jet -J-20
In article , Andrew Swallow
writes On 11/01/2011 18:53, Dan wrote: {snip} Let them steal a chip design with a built in flaw such that it can be remotely commanded to cause major system failure. Essentially one could get the Red Chinese to construct an airplane with a built in bomb. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired The danger with that one is that our own aeroplanes have the save flaw. Andrew Swallow Not necessarily. Remember Concorde and Concordski? There were strong rumours that the Russians had agents who acquired plans/details for Concorde. The two aircraft were certainly fairly similar. The UK and/or French got wind of it and fed in some duff data. Hence the crash and demise of Concordski. Not sure how true it is BUT I live about a mile from Filton and in an area where there were a lot of people who worked on the project. When new neighbours moved in next door about ten years ago they started stripping wallpaper and found a thin wire similar to a radio aerial running round the picture rail of a back bedroom........... One of the previous owners was an aircraft engineer. -- Malcolm |
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