FAA Investigates American Flyers

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:23:45 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

Unfortunately, either not all merchants are bound by that requirement, or
not all merchants abide by that requirement. There is no shortage of
retailers who DO charge more for credit card purchases.

If you read the prices carefully, most places will say 'cash discount'
instead of 'credit surcharge'.

This is how they get around that ruling. The price is the stated
price, but if the customer happens to pay you cash, then if you decide
to charge them 5% less, that's your deal.

If they *actually* come out and say '2% more for credit card
purchases' they are almost certainly in violation of their merchant
agreement.

aw

"aaronw" wrote in message
...
This is how they get around that ruling. The price is the stated
price, but if the customer happens to pay you cash, then if you decide
to charge them 5% less, that's your deal.

My understanding is that the rules do not differentiate between the two
situations. If customers are granted a lower price for not using a credit
card, that's in violation of the merchant agreement. No matter how it's
worded.

Pete

If it is $100.00 an hour and you have 1.50 hours should be $150.00 and if
they give you a $5.00 cash discount should be $145.00 most reputable
business when figuring their profit add in the credit card fees in to their
expenses so that they can recoup their fees or they will just use it as a
business expense and get the tax benefits. on the other hand you get the
company's that like to make more profit from a transaction fee of $5.00 on a
$100.00 transaction costs them $2.20 + $0.40 = $2.60 they are making $2.40
then since it is a transaction fee they can still claim the $2.60 on their
taxes as a expense as they can say the fee is for something else rather than
credit card surcharge. now times that by 10 to 1000 transaction fees a day
then by 365.

Yes credit card merchant service will cancel any merchant that is charging a
surcharge unless that surcharge/fee is for all types of payment including
cash. it don't matter who the merchant account is through
Visa/Mastercard/Amex/ All of them state in their contract with you that is
if you have a surcharge it must apply to all forums of payment and any
violation of this could result in termination of contract and future
merchant services, charge back and or legal action. Yes some states may
allow it but Visa/Mastercard/Amex/ do not. Novus/Discover Allow it in my
contract.

If American Flyers gets probed hard enough from one federal agency they may
get probed by another that may expose the double dipping. I have merchant
accounts and have had legal council about applying a surcharge but decided
the tax benefits are a bit better than passing the costs on to the consumer.
But enough business talk lets get back to the fun stuff Flying.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
(John Galban) wrote:
That's interesting. Just about every FBO I ever visit offers a
lower "cash" price for the purchase of fuel (some even in California).
Is that the same thing as passing on credit card fees?

The difference is representation. I had no idea I was going to be
paying a "transaction fee" until they handed me the credit slip to sign.
The sign on the wall says (figuratively), "Simulator: $100/hr, including
instructor. We accept Visa and Mastercard" (don't hold me to the actual
dollar amount, I don't remember exactly). At the end of the session,
the tach on the sim shows I used (for example) 1.5 hours, so I expect to
pay $150. I also expect to pay sales tax on top of that, even though
the sign doesn't say "plus tax".

If they hand me a charge slip for $150 sim time plus $5 "transaction
fee" plus tax, they've misrepresented the cost to me at the time I was
able to make an informed decision as to whether I wanted to buy what
they were selling. I've been cheated out of $5.

On the other hand, if they say to me at settlement time, "We offer a $5
discount if you pay by check", there's no deception (at least none that
harms me). I can decide I want to save the $5 and write them a check,
or I can just hand them my credit card and get the deal I was expecting.
If I didn't have my checkbook with me, I might be annoyed that I'm
missing out on an opportunity to save $5, but at least I'm not paying
any more than I contracted for.

It's possible they're violating the terms of their agreement with the
credit company, but that's no skin off my back.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message ...

If they hand me a charge slip for $150 sim time plus $5 "transaction
fee" plus tax, they've misrepresented the cost to me at the time I was
able to make an informed decision as to whether I wanted to buy what
they were selling. I've been cheated out of $5.

This is precisely the reason for the law (when it was still a federal law).

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

What about all the gas stations that have a cash price and a credit
price?

I haven't seen as much of that in the past couple of years, but it was
common practice at most gas stations up until just recently

I haven't seen such a thing in decades and I've lived and travelled
through many states. I remember it briefly in the early eighties and
the stations allowed you to avoid it by using "their" credit card and
I had a bunch of gas cards as a result. I terminated all of them when
they went back to taking VISA/MC for the same price. Most of the
OIL cards now are logo'd VISA/MC/AMEX cards now anyhow.

Ron Natalie wrote:

I haven't seen such a thing in decades and I've lived and travelled
through many states.

Well, it isn't exactly a gas station, but Old Bridge airport gives a ten cent
per gallon discount if you pay with cash, check, or a Phillips card. There are
two prices posted on the pump.

George Patterson
If you're not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging
the problem.

Peter Gottlieb ) wrote:


It is still done all the time; just about all ultra discount internet
electronics junk outfits do it.

No doubt they do this so the unsuspecting consumer has no recourse after
s/he receives their order, assuming that even happens.

Stay far away from those e-tailers, or at least look here first:

www.resellerratings.com

--
Peter












----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
I haven't seen such a thing in decades and I've lived and travelled
through many states. I remember it briefly in the early eighties and
the stations allowed you to avoid it by using "their" credit card and
I had a bunch of gas cards as a result. I terminated all of them when
they went back to taking VISA/MC for the same price. Most of the
OIL cards now are logo'd VISA/MC/AMEX cards now anyhow.

When Debit cards came out a few years back, many merchants were charging
about 25 cents for DEBIT transactions until it was widely pointed out that a
debit transaction cost much less (one cent) than processing a paper check.

The AM/PM gas stations (ARCO) around here kept the practice in place for
about two years after the other merchants went to doing it free. I stopped
going to those stations and don't know if they STILL do it.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

What about all the gas stations that have a cash price and a credit
price?

I haven't seen as much of that in the past couple of years, but it was
common practice at most gas stations up until just recently

I haven't seen such a thing in decades and I've lived and travelled
through many states. I remember it briefly in the early eighties and
the stations allowed you to avoid it by using "their" credit card and
I had a bunch of gas cards as a result. I terminated all of them when
they went back to taking VISA/MC for the same price. Most of the
OIL cards now are logo'd VISA/MC/AMEX cards now anyhow.

Diesel is nearly always double (cash/credit) priced at truck stops in
California.

There was just a class action settlement on check/debit cards. The
merchants "won" (acutally the lawyers got money) the merchants can now stop
taking those Visa/Mastercard debit/check cards. ARCO stations get around it
by not taking credit cards at all. They have ATM's where you can get cash to
feed the pumps.
As for my business, we take cards. When asked if we take credit cards,
our response is, "We prefer cash or check." I have made a few sales that
entered "negotiations" (aka Let's make a deal). When I have given a
discounted price I have insisted on cash or check. I'm sure you all like to
get paid 100% of what you have worked for, Merchants are no exception.

--
Kevin McCue
KRYN
'47 Luscombe 8E
Rans S-17 (for sale)




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----