No more "Left Downwind"?

Jon Kraus wrote:
Why? That is where all the pilots (and hence all the fun is)...

Speaking of clogging up the frequency... I was 15 out from Nappanee
(C02) Indiana trying to announce my arrival when I hear someone on the
frequency describing to someone else, what they did the previous
weekend, in minute detail... I swear the frequency was taking up by this
guy for 5 minutes straight... When he finished his diatribe I barely had
the time to announce my plans...

That was the first time I have ever heard this kind of frequency robbing
inconsiderateness... I swear it was like listening to some ham radio
operator with a bad case of verbal diarrhea...

The biggest offender I've ever noticed is MCX. I don't know who they
share the CTAF with, but I swear I used to know everyone's weekend plans
in central Indiana. NONE OF US CARE!!!

Jay Honeck wrote:
We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?

I think he's making a dangerous assumption that pilots will always enter
a left downwind at an uncontrolled airport.

I think he's making a dangerous assumption that pilots will always enter a left downwind at an uncontrolled airport.

He's making an even more dangerous assumption that transiting pilots
will always know which airports have right patterns.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.


I agree completely. I've seen many instances of an aircraft entering the
pattern on the "wrong" side of the runway. One more word on the radio will
clarify the situation completely.

Mike

well.. I'd like to know what side of the airport the other pilot thinks he
is on.. we are at an uncontrolled field.

If he just says "entering downwind for Rwy 20", I don't know if he means
right downwind for 20R or left downwind for 20L. We have transients
approaching the airport that don't even seem to realize we have 2 parallel
runways..

We even have pilots that call, Left Downwind for 20R, so much for the no
transgression zone between the runways.. we are at an uncontrolled airport.

I hate those guys that call in.. "any traffic please advise", if they'll
listen up 5 minutes they'll get 3 radio calls of other people in the traffic
pattern"... we are at an uncontrolled field.

But then we have those guys that hear.. "xx Glider on left downwind for
20L", so they decide 20L is the active runway and call "left downwind for
20L"... I had a jet do that once.. and I asked "if he'd like an extra 1000ft
of wider pavement to land on.. maybe a right downwind for 20R might be
better"..
we are at an uncontrolled field..

"Every "local" pilot may know the traffic is left or right.."
But how many transients do not (1) check the charting (2) look it up in the
AFD or (3) pay attention to what everyone else is doing.

Heck.. we've even had pilots show up during an airshow when the airport was
NOTAM'd closed..
of course.. after they would not pay attention to "airport is closed,
airshow in progress".. the airboss would shut down the show, let them land
and they were met by very kindly FAA inspectors that were there to monitor
the airshow.

BT


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article YQ5Kg.1700$8J2.666@fed1read11,
"BTIZ" wrote:

"Every "local" pilot may know the traffic is left or right.."
But how many transients do not (1) check the charting (2) look it up in the
AFD or (3) pay attention to what everyone else is doing.

How is right or left traffic depicted on a Sectional Chart?

left is standard.. right traffic is on the chart with annotations for the
airport along with the airport elevation, lighting, runway length and
frequency.. as in

JEAN (0L7)
2832 *L 46 122.9
RP 2R 20R

or

Sky Ranch (3L2)
2599 - 33 123.0
RP 12

BT

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article YQ5Kg.1700$8J2.666@fed1read11,
"BTIZ" wrote:

"Every "local" pilot may know the traffic is left or right.."
But how many transients do not (1) check the charting (2) look it up in
the
AFD or (3) pay attention to what everyone else is doing.

How is right or left traffic depicted on a Sectional Chart?

left is standard.. right traffic is on the chart with annotations for the
airport along with the airport elevation, lighting, runway length and
frequency.. as in
JEAN (0L7)
2832 *L 46 122.9
RP 2R 20R
or
Sky Ranch (3L2)
2599 - 33 123.0
RP 12

Interesting. I have never seen it.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
left is standard.. right traffic is on the chart with annotations for the
airport along with the airport elevation, lighting, runway length and
frequency.. as in
JEAN (0L7)
2832 *L 46 122.9
RP 2R 20R
or
Sky Ranch (3L2)
2599 - 33 123.0
RP 12

Interesting. I have never seen it.

Does that mean you never go into an airport with a designated right had
traffic pattern?
Or does that mean that you never look at your charts?

just kidding..
BT

"john smith" wrote in message
...

How is right or left traffic depicted on a Sectional Chart?


RP