Another Cirrus 'chute deployment

Brenor,

or the pilot simply
followed the instructions to use the BSR in the event of a spin.


Actually, the instructions are to try conventional recovery techniques
and THEN deploy the chute if they don't work. I wonder if that was
done. Also, I'd be very interested to know more about the involvement
of autopilot operations in this one.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

C,

None of the Cirrus models will recover from a spin.


Here we go again. This statement is BS! And you know it!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Stefan,

I didn't know this.


Because it is not true.

Cirrus chose to comply with the spin certification by installing the
parachute. This was NOT done after spin recovery in the traditional way
had been tried unsuccesfully, as CJ implies. It was done in order to
save money by not doing traditional spin recovery testing at all.

Thus, the official spin recovery testing requried for certification
wasn't done. This says nothing about whether the aircraft is
recoverable from a spin by traditional methods. It was NOT tried, at
least not to the extent necessary for certification. Instead, the
parachute was installed and accepted by the FAA (and EASA) as a
certifiable means of dealing with spins.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:

done. Also, I'd be very interested to know more about the involvement
of autopilot operations in this one.

Good point. Climb near service ceiling, set the autopilot to hold
altitude, enter some downdraft, and when the autopilot has increased the
angle of attack to the maximum, hit some turbulence ... and there you
go. An autopilot isn't a substitute for pilot judgment.

Just speculating, as everybody.

Stefan

Brenor Brophy wrote:

I just got thinking why would you be at 16,000' over the CA Central Valley ?
I like to fly high, normally 8,500' is my min altitude while, I'm flying XC
around the state, but the oxygen requirements keep me below 12,500'. Even if
I had oxygen on board - I would probably not use it until I had to get to
altitude. For example, If you fly IFR than many of the MEA's over the
mountains are going to force your to have oxygen.

Here in the northeast US, there was a lot of thunderstorm activity this
past summer. I fly a turbo Bonanza and when t-storms were in the
forecast, I often chose an altitude in the mid-teens, despite having to
suck on some O2, to have a better chance of spotting the build-ups above
the haze and/or low layers.


--
Peter

"C J Campbell" wrote:
None of the Cirrus models will recover from a spin.

Oh, baloney, Chris.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Hilton wrote:

C J Campbell wrote:

There is not enough rudder
authority to recover. The Cirrus has never demonstrated a spin recovery,
though it has been tried.


I don't believe either of these statements are correct - if you have
references agreeing with you, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

In fact, the SR22 POH says: "If time and altitude permit, the following
procedures may be used to determine whether the aircraft is in a recoverable
spiral/incipient spin or is unrecoverable and, therefore, has departed
controlled flight." It then goes on to give the spin recovery checklist:

1. Power Lever .................IDLE
2. Control Yoke ............... Neutral
3. Rudder ......................... Briskly Apply Opposite Yaw/Spin
Direction

Don't bother, CJ will never believe anything about the Cirrus that goes
against his predetermined belief that it is a horribly unsafe airplane.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

Don't bother, CJ will never believe anything about the Cirrus that goes
against his predetermined belief that it is a horribly unsafe airplane.


I do not think the airplane is unsafe. I do think there are some training
issues that need to be addressed, particularly the evident tendency of some
pilots to take risks that they would not consider acceptable in other
aircraft. I do not think that inability to recover from a spin is a flaw,
either. Few airliners will recover from spins, but they have outstanding
safety records, despite their constant operation up in coffin corner. If you
can operate airliners there without falling out of the sky, then surely
Cirrus pilots can be taught to do the same.

I wonder if Borchert or Hilton (or anyone else, for that matter) can show
where a Cirrus did successfully recover from a spin without deploying the
parachute. Until then, I will stand by my assertion that it has not been
done.

The Cirrus accident record speaks for itself, but again, I do not think it
is the fault of the airplane. It seems to me to be basically a training
problem.

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
C J Campbell wrote:

impossible to recover once a spin develops. There is not enough rudder
authority to recover. The Cirrus has never demonstrated a spin recovery,
though it has been tried. The only way the airplane could receive
certification was to require deployment of the parachute in the event of
a
spin.

I didn't know this. Personally, I don't like the idea at all wouldn't
buy a plane that can't be recovered by the standard procedure. But then,
I'm maybe just old fashioned.

Then you probably would not like to fly in airliners, either.

To reaffirm some of what CJ is saying, you cannot spin if you do not
first stall. Avoid the stall and you avoid the spin. My question would
be, "Why are you opeating so close to stall to begin with?"
If you choose to operate there, you should anticipate the need for
immediate recovery.

C J Campbell wrote:
I do not think the airplane is unsafe. I do think there are some training
issues that need to be addressed, particularly the evident tendency of some
pilots to take risks that they would not consider acceptable in other
aircraft. I do not think that inability to recover from a spin is a flaw,
either. Few airliners will recover from spins, but they have outstanding
safety records, despite their constant operation up in coffin corner. If you
can operate airliners there without falling out of the sky, then surely
Cirrus pilots can be taught to do the same.

I wonder if Borchert or Hilton (or anyone else, for that matter) can show
where a Cirrus did successfully recover from a spin without deploying the
parachute. Until then, I will stand by my assertion that it has not been
done.

The Cirrus accident record speaks for itself, but again, I do not think it
is the fault of the airplane. It seems to me to be basically a training
problem.