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#2
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote:
The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules. Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy. In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable): 1. Your position on the US seeding list. 2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type. 3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules. 4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 7. Any other comments welcome! Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/ Sean Franke US Club Class Team Member Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou? Ron Gleason |
#3
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:31:05 PM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote: The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules. Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy. In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable): 1. Your position on the US seeding list. 2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type. 3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules. 4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 7. Any other comments welcome! Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/ Sean Franke US Club Class Team Member Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou? Ron Gleason SeeYou is popular and works well. I propose using SeeYou unless a better solution is brought up. Sean Franke |
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
Great conversation developing here!
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#5
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Tuesday, 27 November 2012 17:38:13 UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:31:05 PM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote: On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote: The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules. Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy. In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable): 1. Your position on the US seeding list. 2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type. 3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules. 4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 7. Any other comments welcome! Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/ Sean Franke US Club Class Team Member Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou? Ron Gleason SeeYou is popular and works well. I propose using SeeYou unless a better solution is brought up. Sean Franke Hate to dive deep into details since this is a theoretical discussion but will the SSA have to approve the SeeYou scoring script you will use? Or will you use 'default' SeeYou Competition scoring parameters? Do you have people and/or resources identified that are able to use SeeYou for scoring? Sorry but devil is in the detail(s). Ron Gleason |
#6
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:17:54 PM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 November 2012 17:38:13 UTC-7, wrote: On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:31:05 PM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote: On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote: The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules. Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy. In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable): 1. Your position on the US seeding list. 2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type. 3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules. 4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 7. Any other comments welcome! Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/ Sean Franke US Club Class Team Member Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou? Ron Gleason SeeYou is popular and works well. I propose using SeeYou unless a better solution is brought up. Sean Franke Hate to dive deep into details since this is a theoretical discussion but will the SSA have to approve the SeeYou scoring script you will use? Or will you use 'default' SeeYou Competition scoring parameters? Do you have people and/or resources identified that are able to use SeeYou for scoring? Sorry but devil is in the detail(s). Ron Gleason Do you see any reason the SSA won't approve? Unseen problems? Sean Franke |
#7
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Wednesday, November 28, 2012 9:25:04 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Do you see any reason the SSA won't approve? Unseen problems? It's just another issue for a would be organizer to address. It looks to me as though the 'welcome' mat is out, but until an organizer steps up with a proposal, there's really nothing to approve. -Evan Ludeman / T8 |
#8
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Wednesday, 28 November 2012 07:25:04 UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:17:54 PM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote: On Tuesday, 27 November 2012 17:38:13 UTC-7, wrote: On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:31:05 PM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote: On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote: The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules. Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy. In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable): 1. Your position on the US seeding list. 2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type. 3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules. 4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 7. Any other comments welcome! Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/ Sean Franke US Club Class Team Member Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou? Ron Gleason SeeYou is popular and works well. I propose using SeeYou unless a better solution is brought up. Sean Franke Hate to dive deep into details since this is a theoretical discussion but will the SSA have to approve the SeeYou scoring script you will use? Or will you use 'default' SeeYou Competition scoring parameters? Do you have people and/or resources identified that are able to use SeeYou for scoring? Sorry but devil is in the detail(s). Ron Gleason Do you see any reason the SSA won't approve? Unseen problems? Sean Franke Other than the 1-26 class I not sure how the SSA RC has allowed anything other than Winscore in the past. I see no problems using SeeYou Competition, like any scoring program you need experience with it. There are a number of 'administrative' steps that become manual with SeeYou. |
#9
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:42:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:
The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules. Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy. In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable): 1. Your position on the US seeding list. 2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type. 3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules. 4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 7. Any other comments welcome! Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/ Sean Franke US Club Class Team Member Sean(s), I share BB's and UH's frustration with the level of nonsense in this thread.. Demanding that the organizer (KS) run the 2013 Club Class by FAI rules after the event being sanctioned and resources committed is simply a non-starter. Gutting the contest to hold the Club Class somewhere else is also a non-starter. Rather than all the bluster and rabble rousing rhetoric, commit your efforts to where your mouths are. Procure a waiver to run a regional club class contest under FAI rules by making the convincing case that it will not be less safe than one conducted under US Rules. Hold the contest and demonstrate that it is popular (and take the financial risk). I.e put up or shut up. QT |
#10
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
The distortion, ignorance of facts and double standards are nearing exceptional levels.
I am concerned that the US rules committee functions more like a "think tank" than a committee of ALL fellow soaring pilots. 1) It is an indisputable fact that the FAI Club Class is highly successful around the world IN EVERY SOARING COUNTRY OTHER THAN THE USA. Safety, participation and enjoyments are all very high at Club events. The USA has for many years chosen to disregard the world standards and run on its own with the entirely unique US Sports Class along with completely different rules for all other classes. 2) The ENTIRELY new class being recommended by the US Rules Committee for 2013 Nationals has virtually no similarity to the REST OF THE WORLD in any way other than stealing the Club Class name. This is a fact. Different rules, different handicap ranges, different tasking philosophy. It would be FAR LESS RISKY to simply adopt the same class guidelines (FAI Club) as are currently used WORLDWIDE! The US Rules committee has chosen, once again, to do something completely different than the rest of the world. 3) The Rules Committee has been asked for years to approve a US Club Class by US owners of FAI Club Class Gliders. They asked for a US Class which follows the basic guidelines of FAI Club Class. Many of these pilots who have been asking for the SSA to sanction a US Club Class are now very upset, as this is NOT what they asked for. Not even close. The rules committee seems to thumb its nose at these 30 (and growing) pilots. Many more will not sign a public petition or simply will continue NOT TO FLY US CONTESTS. Many of these pilots are or have been on the US World Team and seem to have some knowledge on the subject. 4) It seems as if this new class has more to do more with streamlining the new upper level of sports class (Discus 2 and up) by removing the bottom quarter of the handicap range (233, etc) than anything else, frankly. This might be the part where I should say "am I getting warmer?" 5) I cannot stress this one enough: You say WE are requesting "SOMETHING ENTIRELY NEW" for 2013 Nationals by arguing for much more adherence to the established FAI Club Rules. You say this means taking financial risk, etc? You tell us to ask for a waiver and do it at a regionals first. You tell me to PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS??? Ill get back to that later. In fact, it is the US RULES COMMITTEE which has (somehow) come up with the idea to propose something entirely new (and completely out of alignment with the rest of the World in terms of Club Class) for US National Championship for 2013 with a class that has never been attempted anywhere in the WORLD, EVER! 6) Running a US Club Class (FAI based) at SC Nationals next spring would be no more a challenge than introducing the entirely new class which you are proposing. It would be simple. No MATS. 50% AT, 50 AAT. Established Club Class handicap Range. Some slight modifications are fine, but that should be the basic model. That would be the FAR LESS RISKY OPTION. What planet are you from? It is MUCH MORE RISKY to try something entirely new and completely foreign from the REST OF THE WORLD... Sean F2 |
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